TIA v15 ???

I've red that you could even program in C++ in v15 ???? WTF ??

The driver for C++ is automatically generated code from Simulink for complicated systems. It's a real drive in some markets, so it's not at all surprising that they're capable of compiling it nor that they've actually been capable of it before this. At the same time, it's not surprising if you don't find a C++ editor out of the box because they're not expecting people to just manually write some C++ code for their machine.
 
The reality that I face in the US is that if I write code that a high school dropout can't understand without additional training, my customers won't accept it.

Can you elaborate further? Why won't your customer except it?
 
Probably because their maintenance department is primarily made up of high school dropouts and they refuse to give them any additional training (because training is expensive, as is hiring more qualified people).

It's a mind-blowingly stupid attitude from management, but if you want the mind-blowingly stupid managers to keep sending their money to you instead of somebody else, you've got to give them what they want.
 
Probably because their maintenance department is primarily made up of high school dropouts and they refuse to give them any additional training (because training is expensive, as is hiring more qualified people).

I understand that and agree but mk42 said his "customers would not accept it" mine are NOT that way as that is the only way they want it.

I would not say they are high school dropouts but they are just maintenance people... being pressured by (the same) management to fix their machines, they want their people to have the ability to do and fix everything regardless of the problem so I do try and keep the program simple as I can and yes I will go extra to keep it simple to understand and not take short cuts (long cuts) but easier to troubleshoot, I dont program in STL unless I add the NOP's or whatever is needed to convert to LAD

As long as they are paying me for a program its my job to write that program to fit their needs not my program after I cash the check its theirs

I do think we can get in a long discussion about "Bubba" but the point is they are trying to provide a living for their family the best way they know how so providing a program they can understand will only help me in the long run
 
I think all three of us are saying the same thing - if you have to turn the "Siemens way of doing things" on it's head so that the end customer can have Bubba work on the machine without any extra training, then you turn the "Siemens way of doing things" on it's head, even if it's a pain for you and you know you could be doing things so much BETTER. Because as I say, it doesn't matter how stupid I think it is, if I want to keep doing their work I've gotta give them what they want, and as you say, it's not always Bubba's fault if management refuse to invest in him as an asset to the company. Bubba just wants to put food on the table.
 
I think all three of us are saying the same thing

I think so too.

Even further off topic, I think I apparently need to dial down my long winded snark on the internet, or something. In the same thread, I think I've been misconstrued as both hating the Siemens way and also hating the people preventing me from using it. Also, in another thread, for hating America I think?

Obviously I need a vacation...
 
I don't have any good reasons that it's done, I just have the ones people give me. I think it's an idiotic practice. If you're going to switch to a new system because you like it, maybe you should actually utilize the advantages that made you like it?

Reason 1 is usually some combination of diversity/keeping the players honest. Facilities are often going multi spec, with multiple PLC brands in play. I've seen situations where a new/retrofitted facility was split in half. Same process on both sides, but one integrator using AB and one integrator is using Siemens, but has mostly AB trained guys. In theory, forces the integrators to play fair, forces the component vendors to play fair; in practice it's a mess.

Reason 2 (following from reason 1) is "we want the same code no matter what PLC platform we use". Understandable from a maintenance point of view, I guess, but it means you're either essentially stuck with the lowest common denominator or you have to bend a system backwards to make it act like the one you really wish you were still using.

You become an engineer so you don't have to deal with politics and interpersonal junk, and then find out that it's worse now because everyone else was hoping the same thing....

Reason 2 is quite literally impossible as the concept of producing and consuming tags is not present in some platforms among other things.

But at the end of the day, you're right... you are there to do a job and if the customer wants something in a certain way, so be it. Truth be told, certain bits of logic are still nicer to read in Ladder than other languages and I would strongly argue that FBD (or Siemens CFC) is far more intuitive to read than other languages for a high level understanding of a process.

One thing I find that management in companies should be doing is having someone on site to carry out a lot of these small projects whilst at the same time training people on the job.
Bubba wants to put food on the table and generally speaking it's not a 5000USD certificate from Rockwell that will guarantee that for him.

This would have, as I now realize doing this job, that having someone knowledgeable allows the company to steer the systems integrators in the right direction and not wing it.
 

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