Small brewery PLC/HMI ideas

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Domore.

is it your home brewery or are you thinking of automating a commercial brewery.

I work in a brewery with a 10bbl relay logic JV system and a 80 bbl main brewery Siemens based IPC system with et200 remote I/O Siemens Step 7.

Packaging is primarily A/B with exception of keg filler which is Siemens Tia Portal ver. 13.

Most brewery systems coming from Germany are Siemens and all seem to be STL with older programming like Step 7 and not TIA.

That said, your question I would check into the Micro 820 series; the software is free. Play around with it and see if you like it. Some don't--small learning curve.

Commercial. Will look at those Micros. I downloaded the AdvancedHMI software, but haven't had a chance to get into it yet. Anybody know if the two are compatible products?

For the HMI I would look at Weintek https://www.plccable.com/weintek-hmis/

The PLC I would look at MicroLogix 1400, not the cheapest but you know you will have lots of support and they are easy to work on, software is around 150.00 so not bad, you can use a 1100 and the software is free

I helped a local micro brewery and we use 1100's and they worked out great, he was using older Panelviews because he had the software

If it was me doing it again I dont think you can go wrong using a 1100 and Weintek/Weinview

And if you need help sampling your product I can help there

I just picked up a 1766-L32BXBA PLC MicroLogix 1400 off ebay for other testing, so that may work out if I can expand the temp inputs.

Do you have the software? if not you will need PN 9324-RLM0100ENE and you can get it from your local AB rep, do you have a count of your I/O yet that you need?

I used a micrologix 1400 to control glycol cooling for our 5 fermentors and 3 bright tanks for our offsite 8 bbl Krone system. It also controls steam to the hot liquor tank and will maybe eventually automate the grain mill. Worked out well. Used a Panelview 800 as the HMI with CCW.

I've got all the rockwell software I should need. I can borrow Siemens if I go that route. Most controllers will easily cover the io. I'm heavy on the temp inputs.

If your using a Thermocouple you will need 1762-IT4

mister x said:

I've got all the rockwell software I should need. I can borrow Siemens if I go that route. Most controllers will easily cover the io. I'm heavy on the temp inputs.

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I read the entire thread and would recommend the following:

I wouldn't focus completely on price, you should also consider the long term plan for the brewery. This includes the maintenance & future expansions. You'd definitely want something robust and industrial; based on that I'd say that RaspberryPi and Arduino are off the table. In terms of maintenance, there's the OEM side and also (one which many fail to consider) the electricians/mechanics supporting the system. Based on experience, you will not find many people who know how to program C/C++ in the electrician/technician realm. Lastly, the same goes for different brands. Most individuals will come with either Allen Bradley (heavily dominant in Canada/US) or Siemens experience.

Edit: my point above is that it's very hard to find experienced people to maintain your system. If you introduce something which isn't common, it will be even more difficult. (just wanted to clarify)

Based on that & the fact that you seem to have access and knowledge of Rockwell, I'd recommend to go with a CompactLogix processor. They aren't extremely expensive (you can get them from eBay if money is a relay issue) and are much more powerful than the micro counterparts.

If the funds are there, I'd also recommend going with the FTView SE infrastructure. Chances are, you already have a server on site for IT operations, so they can throw you a VM on there for that purpose. FTView SE is easy to manage from a single location, has a lot of built in features (the ones you mentioned) and is very easy to work with.

Good luck; let us know what you decide,
Vlad

Vlad Romanov said:

If the funds are there, I'd also recommend going with the FTView SE...
Vlad

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If the funds are there use Ignition. FTView anything is garbage in comparision. You can download Ignition for free and use in demo for as long as you want, you get two hours before the demo ends, but you can reset this as many times as you want.

Phrog30 said:

If the funds are there use Ignition. FTView anything is garbage in comparision. You can download Ignition for free and use in demo for as long as you want, you get two hours before the demo ends, but you can reset this as many times as you want.

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I'm very curious about Ignition. I've seen it mentioned multiple times by several SIs, but never saw it in a production environment. To be fair, you can also use Rockwell stuff for 7 days as a demo and reset the VM at the end of that, so it's not really a selling point for me.

I've done training for FTView SE/ME, and I'd say that's not a direction I'd go - I'll work with anything, but I'm not sure I'd ever recommend that platform. Rockwell PLC, no problem there though. I have looked briefly at Ignition, but still learning what would work. I think the EDGE might be a licensed option - think its $1500? The 2 hour trial version is fun to work with, but not great for 24/7 alarming.

The system will have to be something I can maintain, and I have a fair bit of experience with large scale industrial maintenance in plc (gas turbines, etc), not so much in the design end, particularly the newer advancements in small scale systems.

But $ is paramount in the small brewery game. Probably all small business. This kind of system is basically something that most small breweries don't think about. But there's a case to be made for this kind of monitoring, and possibly transpose it to distilling and wineries. I've basically been asked by a friend to look at for his system, and if I can do something that works $ wise and reliably.

Let's start at the HMI end - how about a Panasonic toughbook as a server for remote alarming/monitoring (maybe control down the line), with local runtime client obviously. Is that sensible?

Vlad Romanov said:

I'm very curious about Ignition. I've seen it mentioned multiple times by several SIs, but never saw it in a production environment. To be fair, you can also use Rockwell stuff for 7 days as a demo and reset the VM at the end of that, so it's not really a selling point for me.

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I think you are missing the important detail that Rockwell software is not available to download from their website without a license number... Ignition requires some details which you can use your dog's details for.

There's also the nickel and diming licensing model which is a pain to work with, although that's in all SCADA systems.

mister x said:

Let's start at the HMI end - how about a Panasonic toughbook as a server for remote alarming/monitoring (maybe control down the line), with local runtime client obviously. Is that sensible?

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Why would you use a laptop for a server? I would not... just way to may issues, I would get a Dell desktop, they are cheaper, more options, larger or multiple screen options and no one will steal them like they would the laptop

We sell the PEAK HMI and it may work for you, I thought you were going to use a physical HMI, if you want to give it a try send me a email and I will send the info for the demo, the owner is also a member here
https://www.plccable.com/pc-based-hmi-scada-unlimited-tags-allen-bradley-siemens-ad-omron-and-more/