PV Plus/VersaView or Good old standby PV 1000

Okay All,

I have a question for you that I would like some guidance on.

I have a small operator interface project that I have been asked to do.

They End User has a CTC P3 Powerstation that failed last week. It seems to be an okay interface. I do like what I see. But the End User is AB. I do not want to get into the bashing war here. I know there are other products out there(I have used many) but the user wants an easily supported product to take their place.

The Local Distributor wants me to use a PanelView Plus or VersaView. The project is not hard. There is nothing special going on besides the fact the OEM used 105 screens. Many of them Help based. My problem is this. I have heard too many bad things about the PV+ that I do not want to be in a situation where I am going over budget. In fact, I think with a PV1000, I could get this done in 2 or 3 days(just because of the enormous amount of help screens to rebuild). I just do not want to be in a situation where I look bad because of some unexpected Rockwell 'feature'. There will be some security and visibility objects as well as some data entry. The End User's Standard is now VersaView and PanelView Plus as well, so I think they would prefer it, but they also want a cost effective solution. Developement software is not an issue as we have both right now.

What do you think? How would you go?


David

I wouldn't use one on a bet (especially not the VersaViews). If a standard PanelView will cut it, that's the route I would take. Let me temper that by saying, as long as it's O.K. with the customer. A lot of folks jumped on the PV+ bandwagon when they saw how much cheaper the hardware/software was vs. std. PView. I have found the development/debugging time to offset that cost delta.

David:

Based on the information you provided in your post, it doesn't appear that you would run into an unexpected "feature" using the PanelView Plus/VersaView. From an HMI project development standpoint, it appears that most of the features you would be using on the new platform are the features of RSView ME that were based on the existing PanelView line. Also, going with the PanelView Plus now could make it a bit easier on the customer in the long run if they decide to take advantage of features (i.e., animation, trending) that are not available in the PV 1000.

One area I would take into consideration is communications. As you are aware, there are a few things you have to keep in mind if you are using RSLinx Enterprise, but those will depend on your situation.

Disclaimer: I am a Rockwell employee who is involved with customer training on the PV Plus/RSView ME...

Regards,
Rick

Rick,

I am glad that you replied on this. Yes, I am aware of some of the communications issues in terms of setup on the PC. I am also aware that other Rockwell products have to be at a certain revision level to function properly.

I have read some stuff here and on the rockwell forums. I also have ALOT of feedback from an OEM who has been faced with many problems in implementing the PV+ on their machine. I have the Local Tech Rep from the distributor coming on Wed. so I can talk about htis further.

mgvol, that is why I am asking the question. Fast developement is useless if you have to spend a large amount of time troubleshooting issues.

David

Of the two choices given, in my opinion PanelView+ sucks less than "classic" Panelview. The PanelView+ software is quirky, but it is faster to configure than the old PanelBuilder stuff, and PanelView+ has lots of capabilities sadly lacking in the older units.

Make sure you get the latest upgrades and latest firmware. Don't assume that A-B has notified you of the latest avaialable. Communications can be a real pain, so test them extensively.

Test the system thoroughly and incrementally on an actual PanelView+ and a PLC - things that work in emulation may not in actual configuration.

If this is your first PanelView+ project get the rep in for some quicky training in configuration and comm set up and downloading. These can be really tough to figure out on your own, and the manuals and help seem to be geared as a sales tool for training classes.

I think my choice would be between PV1000 and a "Brand X" panel-mount PC with RSView32. The PV+ has a much nicer display than the older PV's but getting them working is such a pain - mainly due to RSView Studio. The real problems with the PV+'s begin when you have several to maintain that may have been acquired over 1-2 years. You need a different version of Studio for each rev of the PV+ and you can't have more than one on your PC.
You can most likely get 2 or 3 'brand x' PC's for the price of one PV+.

Tom, I respect your opinion, but I Really will not have the time to burn for this. I need to get it converted correctly the first time or go another route. My problem is, there will be Validation Performed on this(Drug Company) so the time for me will not be there. IT needs to be very smooth. I have a great deal of experience with PanelBuilder and RSView32 and I have only heard reports from people I know and what I have read about the PV+. THat leads me to believe that even with the local rep giving me some help(usually I run into problems that stymie Rockwell, much less the Local guy) I am worried this will stretch out too long if there are problems.


David

David,

I just finished my 2nd PV+ app. The 1st was ML1500 over serial and the 2nd was Compactlogix with ethernet. Most of the problems I had was access to the tags. The ML1500 was the hardest to do offline it really required you to be connected to a processor to obtain the tags. The Compactlogix was a little easier. All you needed was a current copy of the program and you could see the tags in the offline mode.

You have time and the hardware to play , you will get use to it. But if you need this to come up running you can beat the old PV.

If you do use the PV+, get a compact flash card and use this to transfer the runtime project. It is a lot faster than downloading.

Good luck

Andy

Ok, I goin' against the grain...

If'in ya' don't go Versa View then "so be it"
Anything else is half fix.
I don't like Rockwell at ALL! Their software sucks drainage water. Once you get past the fact that is is absoloutly assinine, you have some fantastic qualities in that POS. Ya' just need a woork around, he he....
Out of the BOX straight up, Rockwell for AB PLC is "IS" the way to go.

Hi Ken!

bit

I've done five PV+ applications so far and although there are some "quirks", overall its not that bad, especially if you already have PanelBuilder32 and RSView32 experience.

I found the most confusing thing was getting the communications going. Once I got past this, the rest was pretty straight forward. That being said, the alarms suprised me; if you are used to using the bit method, careful in RSViewStudio, its not the same.

I don't usually browse to the tags in the processor, takes too long. I do it the old fashioned way and import an ASCII database that I previously exported from RSLogix. I did use the browse tags feature for a project that had a CompactLogix and although it was handy there were plenty of delays when first browsing for tags.

My first PV+ application was for a keypad only unit and I forgot to assign a function key to the shutdown (or goto config) button in the application. And being new to RSViewEnterprise I didn't download the correct drivers to the terminal. Once I downloaded the application I couldn't communicate with the terminal anymore to download a new application and correct my mistakes. I read up on how to boot directly into the config screen and it didn't work! After about 30 minutes of trying this and that I came to the realization that I could just plug a mouse into the back of the terminal, move the cursor to the button and press it! Duhhh! That's a moment I won't forget.

When it comes to downloading I always download via Ethernet. Even if the terminal is using some other form of communications (RS232, DH+, etc) I still download through the standard Ethernet port. It doesn't take long.

Getting back to communications, go to the www.ab.com and search the knowledgebase for setting up comms for the PV+; that's where I got my answers from. They outline exactly how to do it.

I always choose PV+ over standard PanelViews now. For the larger screen sizes they are less expensive, they look more impressive to the end user, and you can do alot more with them.

I agree with Gerry. If you want to do the job quickly and be
done with it, use classic.

I guess the and you really have to use features that newer units offer
or if you have time to play with PV+, RSView, comm setup, firmware upgrades
and sitting on the phone with tech support - do it by all means!

The more people try it out and report any problems,
the sooner will RSView become solid product.

We generally wait 3-5 years before using a new product from AB. Too much beta testing for them in the past.

I haven't found the PV+ too terrible to deal with but ME has some catching up to do with PB32 as far as programming environment smoothness.

I think you answered your own question when you said you didn't have a lot of time to goof around and PB32 has nicely matured so I would go with the classic too.

Thanks Guys,


All your comments are very useful. My preference is the classic right now, but they really prefer the Plus, so they are getting me the software and I am meeting with someone this afternoon about it as well.

We will see.

David

Good choice under the circumstances

David,

If you are already familiar with classic panelviews and panel builder software, and you are in a time crunch, I would not recommend this as the time to embark on a PV+ learning curve.

Rick,

Since you are a Rockwell employee involved in training, let me suggest publishing some kind of primer to guide us poor lost souls through the startup of a PV+. There is a whole lot of stuff that needs to be done, and we weren't born with the knowledge. Unless something has been published recently, information is lacking.

CB