Wiring in Canada

CharlesM

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Join Date
Aug 2005
Location
Arkansas
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I have a question about wiring standards in Canada. Over the years I have sent several machines into Canada and have not had any complaints. We just recieved an order for a couple of machines going North and my panel builder hit me with some questions. He said in the past he built panels going North and had trouble with wire ferrels and wire spec's inside the panel. He said they had to removed the plastic head on the end of all ferrels. He said they required to see copper on the wire. I think this is a plant type thing. I know you can have problems putting the ferrel into a terminal to far and clamping down on the plastic but I don't think its a Canada requirement. The second thing was on the wire inside the panel. He said the wire they used did not have any size or type printed on the jacket thus they had to replace all of it. I think this could have some merrit. I have heard that you can have trouble meeting code if the cable is used on the outside of a machine and is not marked with the rating needed. However he said this was the wire used on the back panel. I have not seen anything telling me I need to make sure the hook up wire is marked correctly.

I am planning on talking with my customer next week just to make sure of their requirements. I thought I would see if anyone here could give me the scoop.
 
CharlesM said:
I have a question about wiring standards in Canada. Over the years I have sent several machines into Canada and have not had any complaints. We just recieved an order for a couple of machines going North and my panel builder hit me with some questions. He said in the past he built panels going North and had trouble with wire ferrels and wire spec's inside the panel. He said they had to removed the plastic head on the end of all ferrels. He said they required to see copper on the wire. I think this is a plant type thing. I know you can have problems putting the ferrel into a terminal to far and clamping down on the plastic but I don't think its a Canada requirement. The second thing was on the wire inside the panel. He said the wire they used did not have any size or type printed on the jacket thus they had to replace all of it. I think this could have some merrit. I have heard that you can have trouble meeting code if the cable is used on the outside of a machine and is not marked with the rating needed. However he said this was the wire used on the back panel. I have not seen anything telling me I need to make sure the hook up wire is marked correctly.

I am planning on talking with my customer next week just to make sure of their requirements. I thought I would see if anyone here could give me the scoop.

Usually what's good in the US is good in Canada.

Main complaint I have heard regarding US panels, the wire guy sometimes likes to take the shortest route between two points.

We use wire ferrels all the time. The thing about the wire could have been during a CSA inspection. If you have different voltages mixed inside a duct in the panel, all wire must be rated for the highest voltage. Only way to see that is by markings.

- current ratings for AWG wire sizes that apply in US , apply in Canada

some CSA tips:

- ground all panel doors if above 30vdc is present on the door
- individual ground in each conduit
- CSA or C UL rated components
- finger safe fuses and power distribution blocks
- panel door label with Voltage, phase, FLA and short circuit protection rating
- if any PVC enclosures are being used, make sure ground strap is connected to any conduits attached to PVC
- Green - ground, white - neutral

These are just a few things
 
I use ferrols all the time and have never had any complaints.
I do not know of any code that states that the wire size be visable, although, i don't recall ever using wire that didnt have markings every foot or so.

Derek
 
using ferrules all the time - with plastic colar. panel wire is always CSA rated 600V insulation (why would anyone settle for less? cheap imports?)

make sure that all components are CSA or cUL and properly rated(including wire and cable, circuit protection etc. - everything!). Pay attention to rating of the terminals, you can have same terminal with several ratings like 24A CE, 24A UL, 20A CSA. the one with CSA is what counts of course. if using breakers, same thing (and make sure they are true breakers and not supplementary protection - or simply stay with fuses). if components have no CSA, do the high pot test (or field inspector will be happy to do it for you, for a fee of course). if you are after CSA label, high pot test is a must (if it's in Ontario, you can get ESA label and you may be able to skip high pot test as long as all components are properly rated and CSA or cUL approved, we do it anyway, doesn't cost anything). do proper grounding and bonding (if using modular cabinets don't forget the side panels etc.), make sure your wire colors are correct. don't do anything silly like try to run neutral of 120 or 240VAC feed through fused disconnect, and try not to argue with inspectors (they'll have the final word anyway...).
 
panic mode said:
using ferrules all the time - with plastic colar. panel wire is always CSA rated 600V insulation (why would anyone settle for less? cheap imports?)

make sure that all components are CSA or cUL and properly rated(including wire and cable, circuit protection etc. - everything!). Pay attention to rating of the terminals, you can have same terminal with several ratings like 24A CE, 24A UL, 20A CSA. the one with CSA is what counts of course. if using breakers, same thing (and make sure they are true breakers and not supplementary protection - or simply stay with fuses). if components have no CSA, do the high pot test (or field inspector will be happy to do it for you, for a fee of course). if you are after CSA label, high pot test is a must (if it's in Ontario, you can get ESA label and you may be able to skip high pot test as long as all components are properly rated and CSA or cUL approved, we do it anyway, doesn't cost anything). do proper grounding and bonding (if using modular cabinets don't forget the side panels etc.), make sure your wire colors are correct. don't do anything silly like try to run neutral of 120 or 240VAC feed through fused disconnect, and try not to argue with inspectors (they'll have the final word anyway...).

I 2nd that.
We shipped panels to Canada and UL was good enough for them.
The 600V insulation rating is very important though (shielded cables usually go up to 300V insulation so be carefull when you spec those).
If any/all components are rated, it will save you a lot of time and "fees" for approvals and re-inspections.
Print out all the spec sheets that show UL and CSA approvals as the inspector will OK those in a second using the EN files and such. The more eN files you can come up with for your components the better off you will be at the time of "judgement".
The inspector is "God" so no arguing there.
Is it true that CSA inspectors have the final work based on their area of coverage regardless of CSA as a governing body?
That's what we were told anyways by our Canadian client.
 
bkottaras said:
Is it true that CSA inspectors have the final work based on their area of coverage regardless of CSA as a governing body?
That's what we were told anyways by our Canadian client.

final work or final word?

Some inspectors go by the book. And the more you argue with those ones, they more they adhere to the book.

Others are great, and once you establish a relationship with them are very lenient on border line stuff. Our inspector knows us now, and automatically approves our panels by visual inspection only. He knows the quality of our work, knows our wire guys, knows our CAD guy and as long as he sees the stuff in panels he is used to, every one is automatically passed.
 
Thanks for the tips guys. Like I say I have never had problems in the past but I still want to make sure everything is in good shape.
 
Canada code

Never assume that what is good in the US is OK for Canada. All wire in pannels must be identified as per voltage and insulation type. If your wire is not clearly labeled then it is not OK. All metal that is not part of the circuit must be grounded, regardless of the voltage used. Section 10 of the CEC is very clear on this. Section 4 and section 12 describe conductor colour and wiring methods of pannels.
Everyone uses crimp-on devices for terminal blocks, it is important to understand that the correct size crimp-on device is used for the wire and terminal size. Many problems occure when the wire is not tight after being crimped by the compresion tool.
The big mistake I see is people sizing the crimp-on device for the terminal block not the wire. Size the compression device to the wire.... then CSA will not have a problem with your wiring.
A code book is a good investment.
 
Sorry to say, but from what I've seen of both American and Canadian panels, they could never get through the door in any European site.

The standards are so different
 
PeterW said:
Sorry to say, but from what I've seen of both American and Canadian panels, they could never get through the door in any European site.

The standards are so different

Peter,

I agree, I drool at the interior of panels that originate from Europe. I always state, "I wish we had an unlimited budget to build panels as the Europeans do".

Over the past few years we have built panels for large European based food processing companies, as the local Canadian offices could not afford the price of the panels originating from Europe.

Unfortunately in North America we have to deal will panel bashing shops that low ball everyone else, driving down the prices, thus driving down the quality.
 
Last edited:
curlyandshemp said:
final work or final word?

Some inspectors go by the book. And the more you argue with those ones, they more they adhere to the book.

Others are great, and once you establish a relationship with them are very lenient on border line stuff. Our inspector knows us now, and automatically approves our panels by visual inspection only. He knows the quality of our work, knows our wire guys, knows our CAD guy and as long as he sees the stuff in panels he is used to, every one is automatically passed.

Final Word NOT work. I apologize.

We did not have any issues with the local inspectors but the panels were wired to UL specs and all the EN files and such were handed to local UL inspectors. Once we passed the UL inspection the docs were send to the Canadian client and the inspection went just fine.
Though, others have had some horror stories to tell about the CSA inspectors (some of them anyways).
 
A code book is a good investment.
We have an NEC code book but I depend a lot on NFPA 79. This is the electrical standard for industrial machinery here in the states. Does Canada have a book like this?
 
PeterW said:
Sorry to say, but from what I've seen of both American and Canadian panels, they could never get through the door in any European site.

The standards are so different

I agree.

Though I did work for a local machine builder that shipped machines to Europe. I spent lots and lots of time going through CE-EU directives. A governing body approved outfit has to come in and do all the testing though in order to get CE certification, a bit too rich for the blood of most outfits around here.
WE did manage to get all the approvals on the first try though a lot of work was done up front. Wiring, line reactors/filters, VFD chokes, safety risk assesments, etc.

If your only goal is to keep the cost of labor and parts down to a bare minimum, you'll never even get close to the European panel builders.
 

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