Red Lion HMI and Control Techniques Drive... and lost !

icc1john

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Jul 2013
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Although I have read many helpful threads in the past, I am new to participating here. I have completed many projects, big and small using AB and more recently Automation direct / C-more - but now I have two devices - both of which I have ZERO experience with...
The machine designer has specified the use of a CT Commander SX drive with a G304K Red lion HMI. I took a look at them both, lots of great things written about the Red Lion, so I figured "how hard could it be" ?
Well - First the realization that I needed the special cable for commissioning the G304 - now that I am past that, I have realized that there is no cable for the Commander SX... and that the SX communicates with via Modbus... requiring that t communicates through what the red lion uses for configuration... geez... and there is no cable for the 485 comms to the Commander.. Hole is getting deeper...

OK, I made a cable today from the 9 pin on the Red Lion to the RJ45 on the SX - set up the comms in Crimson to Modbus Universal Master, and TaDa... little blue light is flashing. At least I'm making progress.

Now all I want to do is start, stop, MOP, and monitor frequency in the SX, but as I stated, I have no idea how to get the data to and from the SX - ZERO Modbus experience and confused on the addressing.
Any help would be appreciated. !!!
 
Look in the manuals for the drive for the modbus mapping. You be looking in the 30000's and 40000's for the command and status bits and words. Sorry I can't help any more, I'm not familiar with the CT drives either.
 
Well I managed to configure the G304K so I can now use the ethernet for programming, freeing up the 9pin for comms with the commander SK, but I have yet to come up with a working comms cable form the g304 to the SK. I found a drawing for the adapter cable when used with CTvue (crimson 2.0 offspring), I have tried many variations, no luck.
Does anyone have experience with this ?? There is apparently not a std. red lion cable for modbus comms with SK ?
 
If there's an Ethernet port on the G3, then it's probably a G304K2, the second edition of hardware for the small 'Kadet' model.

Make sure you're looking at the correct serial port pinout, as the G304K and G304K2 are slightly different.

Red Lion HMI's connect to so many different devices, the wiring is an adventure every time.

Let's verify that we're talking about the same drive, too: it's a Control Techniques Commander SK, right ? Which frame size ? I don't feel like navigating their website to find the hookup diagram, so if you can point to it or take a screenshot of the connection diagram that would be great.

Go ahead and ZIP and attach your *.CD3 file from Crimson 3, so folks can have a look at the configuration you've done. Post the exact version of Crimson 3.0 you are using, as well.
 
Yes, this is an adventure - been spoiled by the c-more panels & "instant" cables...
You are correct, the panel is the Kadet, G304k200 and the drive is a Control Techniques SK (SKCD200220), makes it a frame B, I believe.
I love the G304 panel, but having a serious time with the comms. connection and modbus...
I will work on trying to do the screenshot and .cd3 file - it's currently in the other plant.
 
I just did a G304K2 project with Modbus RTU on the RS-232 port, talking to an Allen-Bradley Micro 830 controller.

So the configuration and addressing are fresh in my mind; it's the cable that will be the challenge.

Crimson 3.0 generally goes by "Build Number". Mine says "Gold Build 548.001" and I think it's a few months old.

I'll probably download an update when I look into using a Graphite series terminal.
 
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Well, still no comms response, hope I didn't kill the 485 port. Seems pretty simple, commander SK on the RJ45 shows;
2 - RXTX 485+
3 - Com
7 - RXTX 485-
G304k200 shows
6 - com
7 - 485+
8 - 485-
I have made the obvious connections 2-7, 3-6, 7-8 but have no reponse. Since I am Modbus illiterate, maybe I do not have the protocol set up properly ? In Crimson - first RS 485 netowrk set to Modbus RTU slave, 9600 baud, 8 data bits, 2 stop, no parity , 2-wire 485.
I am sure that someone (probably all of you) know what I am doing wrong here... please help !!
 
Modbus is a Master/Slave network, where the Master initiates all the communications transactions. Slave devices reply only when the Master sends them a command.

So the G304K2 has to be the Modbus RTU Master. The driver you want is the Modbus "Universal Master".

RS-485 data polarity is a notorious source of confusion, so try swapping the Data + and Data - conductors.

There are two serial ports on that one connector; make sure you are configuring the correct one in Crimson 3.

Pins 7 and 8 are "COM3" in the Kadet user manual, and I think that's called the "RS-485 Auxiliary Port" in Crimson 3, rather than the "Comms Port -> RS-485 Mode".
 
Well, after trying a zillion different configurations, master, slave, settings, both 485 ports in the G304 - it appears Ken's very first shot at it is correct, swapped the 2 wires and we're talking - thus ends my first very painful commissioning experience with Modbus and the Red Lion HMI.
I'm thinking a little more forum reading and some more study of Modbus is something to add to my "to do" list.
Ken - I owe you one, I think I was close to throwing in the towel and grabbing a different drive !!!!
 
Jeremy, no problem... Once again this forum dug me out of trouble. I do have a related question though - now that I am actually using the g304k with some success, I am definitely liking it. I am eyeballing a fly knife cutter we have "resting".
It has a control techniques EN/FM2 indexer servo & motor, should be fine (kind of a repeat of the original challenge).

My question relates to the cutter itself. Basically all it does is count from a red lion RPG to a preset (currently Gemeni counter), then triggers the servo drive to index.
What would you recommend using with the G304k and Emerson servo combo to take in the length data and perform the counting operation ?
I would hate to add a PLC just to count length and talk... Is there an el-cheapo batch counter unit with comms. ??
 

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