Regarding PLC connection to Kiosk

It is the real project. Please go through my latest replies to get updates about the problem because I have replaced kiosk with an app which customers would download and this app would connect to plc remotely to execute orders. My question is the same and you can see them by going through my latest replies. Please answer them
Thanks
 
Yes I would outsource to make a personalized web api however I am little confused of term Host you are using. I think host must be some kind of hardware device that interconnects the mobile phones to the plc through a web server. And that host would be connected to the plc through Ethernet communication. So my question here is What is the host here? and if I am wrong please explain in short what you are saying about that whole host thing and interconnection between plc and mobile phones.
 
So my question here is What is the host here? and if I am wrong please explain in short what you are saying about that whole host thing and interconnection between plc and mobile phones.

Here is one, of many, possibilities:


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(That hand-drawn mish-mash in the mobile app is supposed to be a QR code - also, the mobile app will probably not receive the station location, but rather a code that the customer's station will display - ah, now there are code displays at each station, cha-ching!).

The outer main gateway on the left is for security: only your payment provider communicates with the scheduler host across this main gateway, whether push and/or pull - perhaps the payment processor sends an email and the scheduler host checks every 10s or so.


The inner gateway on the right is to secure the PLCs, which are by nature insecure; to my mind, this is the main reason for a scheduler host i.e. it is far easier and cheaper to secure a non-PLC scheduler host than to have a PLC communicate with anything else.


If there is no external path (e.g. wireless/cellular) to the cloud and the payment processor, you may need to provide a third wifi network and gateway locally for mobile users - you do not want any mobile users on either of the other networks.




You do not want

  • Any part of the payment process behind these gateways
  • Any wifi behind the main gateway, only physical cable connections secured in a locked closet or other location that is not accessible to customers. N.B. I could be wrong here, maybe wifi is better because any part of a cable that has to run outside the closet can be cut and spliced.
  • Mobile phones connecting directly to your PLCs, or even the scheduler behind these gateways, in any way, other than perhaps scanning a QR code to release and pick up an order.
This approach still has many problems that need to be resolved:

  • Security, security, security; both physical and digital.
    • It will be very difficult to implement this without at least one person present, at least part time, to replace supplies, clean things up, discourage malicious behavior, etc. Security cameras might downgrade the cost of this to a part-time service.
  • The way it is set up, I can fake-order a drink from several time zones away, never intending to pick it up. which will shut down one of the PLC systems until someone picks it up and puts it in the trash. For the price of a few drinks, I could shut down the entire system.
  • How does someone know where to get their drink?
    • Does there need to be feedback from the scheduler to the payment processor to the mobile?
    • There could be a display stating which order is at which station
    • Perhaps the payment processor can return a QR code to the purchaser's mobile, and each PLC has a device to scan the code from the mobile screen and open one of several delivery doors.
      • That way there is no need of feedback from scheduler to payment processor to mobile.
      • The Little Caesar's chain uses this to distrbute pizza; see this video.
      • But an automated system like this will have problems (even malicious ones; see the fake-order scenario described above).
      • And it is probably no different, cost-wise, than a kiosk.
The scheduler host *could* be a PLC, but I don't know if TLS is available on PLCs, and all security will rest on the main gateway on the left in the diagram.


Another configuration has the mobile user connecting directly with the scheduler host, but then payment information passes through that scheduler - you do not want any part of that.


To my mind, the scheduler host and the PLCs are the smallest and cheapest pieces of this puzzle. E.g. unless I was in the security business, which I am not, I wouldn't even implement the scheme above without having it evaluated by a professional, and then re-evaluated after the implementation


Anyway, these are just random thoughts, there are probably many many other issues I have not even touched on.


And you thought the kiosk was expensive.
 
I have seen the video you send me(of QR code scanning) but my method is different.
1 Customer would scan the QR code. This would lead the customer to download the app. (The restaurant would provide the wifi and they would use it to scan the QR code)
2 Customer would make order and and make payment through app
3 This order would be send to plc via the method you told earlier ( the whole host and web server thing)
4 How customer would get the order is completely different thing and is not included in my current problem
5 The security of payment would not be a problem according to me as Razor Pay provides enough security
6 This problem is for customers that are in the shop . (This is not online ordering of beverages from home or outdoors)

Also I am curious to know about what you said about plc security. I mean that only the control of plc would depends on the customers order and not any external system so how can someone ruin that security. Also plc would accept all the commands on the basis of code written in the web api or app. I don't think someone can ruin the security both of plc and payment.
If you don't agree with my above answer what are your suggestion and corrections regarding my answer?
 
Last edited:
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(The restaurant would provide the wifi and they would use it to scan the QR code)



[...]


Also I am curious to know about what you said about plc security. I mean that only the control of plc would depends on the customers order and not any external system so how can someone ruin that security....


What is important is that the PLCs are not on the same LAN (broadcast domain) as the LAN that the WiFi provides. If they are, then anyone with a mobile in that restaurant could connect to the PLCs; for that matter they could connect with a laptop, change the programs, load new firmware, etc. By separating the restaurant LAN from the PLC LAN, the traffic that travels between them can be controlled by the gateway between them.


In fact, I just realized a better approach may be to have the in-restaurant web server have two ethernet ports (or ethernet port and wifi), and it would be the gateway connected to both LANs, with the cable ethernet going to the PLC LAN, and unless someone hacks into it (e.g. via SSH or RDP), there is no way for any other traffic to the PLCs except from the web service issuing commads to the PLC to produce to customer orders.


There are several ways to handle the payment, but I would not have the in-restaurant web server doing it as middleware; the mobile app interacts directly with Razor Pay, and then Razor Pay releases an order to the web server once payment is confirmed; that way the restaurant hardware and software never sees the payment details, credit card numbers, etc.
 

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