OT: Poll : Economic situation

I have deceided to take a poll and see what everyone else thinks. Here where I work we have been debating the current economic issues and while we know no one in Washington would listen these are ideas that we think would at least help the problems as they are.

1. Either lower taxes or impose a uniform tax where everyone pays the exact same amount. Say something like 3 percent.

2. Go back and reassess all homes and property at a lower rate. This would make it more affordable to all and lower the taxes paid on the home.

3. Make severe and stiff penaties against companies that hire the illegals. Make it more lucrative to hire natural born or naturalized citizens.

4. Dont allow illegals to draw off of the taxes paid by natural born and naturalized citizens.

The way we look at it is most people wont or cant take the jobs that the illegals do because they could not afford to live on that pay. Mainly because of overtaxed and the high interest rates and all that so if we made things more fair it might just work.

What do you all think? Would something like this work. I realize there are probably other ideas and hey by all means post away. Have a great day and a wonderful holiday season.

mrtweaver said:

I have deceided to take a poll and see what everyone else thinks. Here where I work we have been debating the current economic issues and while we know no one in Washington would listen these are ideas that we think would at least help the problems as they are.

1. Either lower taxes or impose a uniform tax where everyone pays the exact same amount. Say something like 3 percent.

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3% ? your government would go bankrupt! In any case, im a big believer in progressive tax systems. Wealthier people have benefited more from society, so should contribute more.

2. Go back and reassess all homes and property at a lower rate. This would make it more affordable to all and lower the taxes paid on the home.

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this seems fairly short sighted to me. Can you imagine the case that would occur if a blanket change occured to property prices? There would be even less certainty out there. Prices would collapse.

3. Make severe and stiff penaties against companies that hire the illegals. Make it more lucrative to hire natural born or naturalized citizens.

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A great idea in theory, not so good in application. What do you do to support those industries that depend on illegal workers? The loss in economic production would only increase the magnitude of the recession.

4. Dont allow illegals to draw off of the taxes paid by natural born and naturalized citizens.

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Agree wholeheartedly. Is this a valid argument though? How do illegals get access to services? I worked in the US for a couple of years (fully legal mind you) and i had the opposite experience, I had to pay social security taxes but was not valid to receive anything.

You are looking at the little stuff.

It is the frauds, and mis-management by banks, investment firms and the total failure of government to make sure these places are not mis-managing other peoples money that has caused these problems.

50 Billion dollar frauds. How does that happen? The SEC must be paid to look the other way. Fannie mae and freddie mac paid congress to look the other way.

How about being convicted for corruption carries the death penalty? Executed quickly. I will even donate the 45 ACP round.

I'm not sure who, or what agency would have time to "reassess all the real estate"..... But I DO believe that the combination of "easy credit", teaser rates, and speculation, artificially drove the PRICE of real estate far beyond it's VALUE.

Real estate values HAVE to be readjusted somehow, but the way it's happening now can't be right. Banks are repossessing homes at a record rate because that's what they have always been SUPPOSED to do. The end result is INSANE: hundreds of thousands of empty homes, and at the same time, THRONGS of homeless families!

The homeless families now have abysmal credit scores, and the banks won't lend to them NOW even to by a bargain basement, appropriately modest home.

And like Peter said, the frauds behind it all not only pocketed BILLIONS, but some of them are holding their hands out for "bailout money" to boot.

Has anybody ever seen the movie "Idiocracy"?

Stationmaster

1. Either lower taxes or impose a uniform tax where everyone pays the exact same amount. Say something like 3 percent.

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I have always wanted this a "Flat Tax", a true flat tax absolutely no deductions (none). Although it would have to be a lot more then 3%, I would be happy to pay 15%.

2. Go back and reassess all homes and property at a lower rate. This would make it more affordable to all and lower the taxes paid on the home.

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You can already do this ( at least here in LA county)

3. Make severe and stiff penalties against companies that hire the illegals. Make it more lucrative to hire natural born or naturalized citizens.

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Nice idea,I agree but neither side will do it. Liberals want open borders and conservatives want cheap labor. There are already laws on the books for this just not enforced.

4. Don't allow illegals to draw off of the taxes paid by natural born and naturalized citizens.

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I could not agree more.

About the flat-tax: 3% of a TV or one loaf of bread (or even 1000) does not save me as much as 3% on a Porche. At first sight it looks good for the 'poor' guy but at the end the 'rich' guy get's the biggest bonus.

But i can understand the support of this idea, in a country where the official social/medical support system is not strong (please correct me if i'm wrong) it is the individual who has to take action for himself. At first glance this system looks very interesting. In my country there are also already people talking about this system. I prefer a more social system like we have. Sure we pay a lot of taxes but at least we do not have most of your social problems. This gives me more ease of mind.

It was all about greed, pure and simple. Banks, institutions, and people all joined in the madness. The free world is dependent upon the US.
If the US economy is broke, the rest is in the sh*t.
We all need to live within our means, with minimum credit exposure, and hope we get through this in one piece.

My $0.02,

It was all about greed

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I agree, this is the root cause. How could anyone regulate or stop this? Greedy people will find a way to steal without getting caught or a loophole when they do. It's up to our government to prosecute these crooks when they are caught.

In my opinion no buisness should ever get a handout from the government.
Government loans? Sounds like a good spot for more greed to creep in & take some loot away from the taxpayers.
Like Peter said, the illegal immigrant workers are the small problem, at least in my neighbourhood.
Flat tax? I don't know.. hmmmm
Lower property taxes were traded for an increase in sales tax in my area.

Why has noone mentioned the high fuel prices as a possible cause of the economys failure during the summer? I can see where some people had to choose between their mortage payment & a tank of gasoline. I suppose that is their fault for not budgeting for the possibility. Wasn't it the fault of greedy investors looking to make a quick buck that drove the fuel prices up? There are too many fund managers (managing yours & mine 401K) that will jump at the chance to make a quick buck in the commodities markets. They are like jackels pouncing on a dead animal. This drives the price up. Greed drives everything in the USA!

Don't even get me started on the greedy predatory lending practices of the credit companys. These guys should be shackeled in the county courtyard so every passing citizen could give them a whack.

A disturbing trend in USA is to pass the buck & noone takes responsibility for mistakes.

BD

Peter Nachtwey said:

It is the frauds, and mis-management by banks, investment firms and the total failure of government to make sure these places are not mis-managing other peoples money that has caused these problems.

50 Billion dollar frauds. How does that happen? The SEC must be paid to look the other way. Fannie mae and freddie mac paid congress to look the other way.

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I don't even think it's just that they look the other way. Look at the actual "Talent" in government, specifically the SEC.

The same educational background is needed to work at the SEC, as well as be a slick, loophole seeking Wall Street exec. Now look at the difference in the pay scales.

Basically, the SEC is built around people that in general weren't shrewd enough to make it in the private sector, now you want them to actually figure out the scams and prosecute?

I think our tax structure needs to change, to many loopholes for people to get out of paying taxes. Try this on for size. http://www.fairtax.org

1. Either lower taxes or impose a uniform tax where everyone pays the exact same amount. Say something like 3 percent.

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Here I am both for and against. I beleieve it would be fair to tax everyone's income by the same percentage. The problem I see is 2 fold. First how exactly do you define income, would Capital Gains be included, what about intrest, trust fund payments excetra...excetra... Second, if you set the percentage at say 15% and the government comes up short on the money it needs (because a precent of that is totally wasted) how will the taxes be raised and will other taxes just go up to make the flat tax look good? Everybody says the weathly owe more. To me it depends on how they got weathly.

2. Go back and reassess all homes and property at a lower rate. This would make it more affordable to all and lower the taxes paid on the home.

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Question here is, if my house asses for less than what I owe then do I suddently owe less? Since I morgaged my home based on what I figured I could pay with a fixed morgage rate do I get a break the same as the ones who bought a house with a intrest only morgage at a price they could not afford?

My take on this whole sistuation is I will get screwed because alot of other people made really bad desisions. People will get breaks because they got a lousey loan, the banks will be rembersed what they lost and I will be left with the bill.

In the buiness most of us here are in, when we make a stupid mistake we pay for it. We work longer hours to fix the problem. On my end we make less money as well. Why should it be different for this mess?

3. Make severe and stiff penaties against companies that hire the illegals. Make it more lucrative to hire natural born or naturalized citizens.

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We already have these laws. It is like several laws we have. Enforcement is the issue, not lack of laws.

4. Dont allow illegals to draw off of the taxes paid by natural born and naturalized citizens.

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Once again, enforce the existing laws.

It is the frauds, and mis-management by banks, investment firms and the total failure of government to make sure these places are not mis-managing other peoples money that has caused these problems.

50 Billion dollar frauds. How does that happen? The SEC must be paid to look the other way. Fannie mae and freddie mac paid congress to look the other way.

Click to expand...

Granted that this is on the largest scale to date but who remebers "Junk Bonds". First rule of comerce: You can not get soemthing for nothing. Everybody keeps playing this same game and loosing then crying I lost everything. In reality, you paid for nothing so you got nothing.

I read an article about this 50b Ponzi Scam and one of the things stated was the SEC had recieved complaints as far back as 1999. So I agree that the SEC completely dropped the ball here but hey...When has the SEC not dropped the ball... This also goes back to enforcement, not a bunch of new laws needed.


Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. Personnaly I see a long list of people that deserve a good smacking.

Thought I'd throw this in.

The interest rates have been coming down somewhat so I applied for a 15 yr mortgage (I still 22 yrs. left on my 30yr.). This would save me a substantial amount of money, so why not.

Early last year I contimplated refinancing but the interest rates climbed and did not seem worth it by the time. But the closing costs would have been around the $1500 mark.

Anyway, I opened the mail from the bank and the first page read "the closing costs have went up substantially due the new regulations of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae". My new closing costs are now going to be around $4500!!!!

I thought we as tax payers just gave Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae BILLIIOOOONS of dollars to bail their asses out. And now they are going to RAPE us on the front end of a loan?????

WTF!!!!!!

Fannie and Freddie seem to be everybody's favorite whipping boy these days. My guess is that your quoted closing costs aren't entirely due to them, but include a big slug o' cash for the bank that originates the loan.

Furthermore, you should investigate making higher monthly payments on your existing loan. Anything over and above the stated payment will reduce your principal and that gets the loan paid off sooner reduces the total amount you wind up paying.

If the existing mortgage doesn't let you make higher monthly payments, then take the extra money you would have spent on that 15 year loan and put it a savings account. After some period of time, it will accumulate to where it equals the principal you owe on your 30 year mortgage. When that day comes, pay the 30 year mortgage off in full.

Also, Freddie and Fannie cost more due to the fact that they have a higher default rate. This is because they lend to riskier borrowers. If you are required to pay "PMI" (private mortgage insurance required if your equity is less than 20%) you will find that the premium for a FHA loan is almost double than for a "conventional" mortgage. At least that was my experience.