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Old June 11th, 2018, 05:17 AM   #31
Christoff84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BITS N BYTES View Post
I'm with BobB!
I'm also self employed and do approx. 20 applications/year.
OMRON ALL THE WAY!

Tech. support and online resources all free.
My initial investment in CX-One software over 12 years ago has paid itself off many times over and has been consistently updated at NO additional cost.
After being forced into Omron for a project I agree. Their NX platform is pretty powerful and the software function is comparable to RSLogix 5000. The support is FREE, when you buy a processor you can usually get the software FOR FREE (or close enough).

The Omron NA series of HMIs are quite good and lots of features, but the cost is still up there for an HMI, the NS series will work, but the features are lacking compared to other high end HMIs.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 02:28 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by AustralIan View Post
If you like AB, go with the Micro800s.

If you like AB DO NOT go with the Micro 800 series. You will be bitterly disappointed, especially if you are already familiar with their RS LOGIX family.


My 2 cents.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 03:03 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by DrewE View Post
The company I work for is a bit of a start-up and cannot afford to play with the big dogs like AB and Siemens. We currently use CodeSys running on Wago PLCs but my experience with AB leads me to believe that there must be another tier of PLC/HMI platforms between AB and CodeSys. Can anyone provide me with some recommendations for reliable PLC/HMI platforms that outperform CodeSys but don't require the investment of AB?
AB does not outperforms CodeSys (by 3S) in anyway, instead CodeSys has more capabilities than AB. The only reason AB is a big name in the US is that AB started promoting their PLCs in colleges way back in the 70s. Now most of the young's back in the day own the industrial automation industry today and that is what they know best.

Now back to your question, It looks like you don't want to program CodeSyS?

What kind of application you working on, no. IOs, in general your application spec will determine which PLC platform is needed?

Is good to throw us a clear and coincide question for recommendations.

You can try Schneider Electric Modicon PLCs (M221, 241, 251) for small to medium size system, programmed with SoMachine (Solution for Machines) which is based on the CodeSyS Platform.

You can try Schneider M340, or M580 for process application (programmed with Unty Pro)

Last edited by Rockby; June 22nd, 2018 at 03:14 PM.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 05:00 PM   #34
Ken Roach
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The original poster joined this Forum almost three weeks ago and posted just once, a vague question for which she has provided no clarification or follow-up.

While I like a good "my favorite controls vendor is X" thread, I don't think this was a sincere question.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 06:42 PM   #35
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i have been a 30 year rockwell AB user, but a few years back i was shown the ABB range of ECO AC500 PLC's which i tried.


they use CoDeSys software and the PM554-ETH base model 14 I/O on board PLC (Australian $ approx $850 last purchase some time back) has a lot of bang for your buck. it has visualisation where you can do basic HMI functionality embedded in the PLC code and accessible via a web browser.


very powerful for a base unit, i have set up modbus 485 comms on a small network to the 2nd PLC comm port then communicating to SCADA. I/O expansion is well priced.



CoDeSys is very good software in my opinion, and since you already use this its an added advantage.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 06:52 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by BITS N BYTES View Post
If you like AB DO NOT go with the Micro 800 series. You will be bitterly disappointed, especially if you are already familiar with their RS LOGIX family.


My 2 cents.

Yes i agree with this, i too hate this software. it may have got beter (possibly ?) i had early version and it put me off.
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Old July 14th, 2018, 01:00 PM   #37
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Sorry for the incredibly late reply. The issues we have had are;
- Used Turck PLCs originally but they were not fast/large enough for our programs (this is second hand information. Our equipment is usually 200 I/O points almost exclusively digital.
- We did not have any support from Turck for CodeSys questions and could not locate a good knowledge base.
- Switched to Wago and suffered thru many firmware upgrades until our programs finally stopped locking up. We had this problem for over a year while we were rolling out equipment.
- Having the same issue with CodeSys support on Wago. A lot of back and forth about if the program is"wrong" or the platform can't support it. Some of our guys like pushing Wago to improve but I would rather focus our efforts on improving our product.
- Many man-hours lost working on ModBus communications. We have found them too slow for many real-time situations. We have nearly turned ModBus communications into cottage industry.
- We use an older version of CodeSys, v2.3, but my understanding is that Wago cannot support the newer version.
- Just not used to such a steep learning curve and having to search so hard for information. I have programmed in many other platforms but have not had to spend nearly as much time as I do now.
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Old July 14th, 2018, 01:05 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by cardosocea View Post
I am intrigued as to why Codesys is bottom quality and not mid range... particularly compared to something as AB.
Is it possible that we are simply using the wrong hardware? In another reply I listed several of our struggles with "CodeSys" but they may be PLC driven. I am used to using a vendor and that vendor's software. Using Wago/Turck and CodeSys makes me feel stuck in the middle.
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Old July 14th, 2018, 01:07 PM   #39
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I just did my first project with productivity 2000 from automation direct. I spent a couple hours getting used to the software and spent about 30 minutes on the phone with their support and I was cranking out logic very quickly. They have it set up so you barely have to take your hands off the keyboard. I'm coming from Rockwell, and so far I barely miss it.
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Old July 14th, 2018, 03:42 PM   #40
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Drew, here's from my personal experience.

Modbus is by design a query/response mechanism, which is not optimal for high speed. If you need high speed, use another field bus. I use several different Modbus devices with Wago PLC's (e.g. Wago remote I/O, load cell amplifiers/digitizers, solar power converters). I cannot get like 100 updates per second, but for my purposes it works.

Older Wago units can indeed only be programmed in v2.3, newer versions (PFC100 and PFC200 series) support Codesys v3.5. We use relatively new Wago units, routinely around 200 digital I/O, works fine for us. We have in the past used Codesys 2.3, these days we use E!Cockpit, which is the Wago version of Codesys 3.5. Another option is to use standard Codesys 3.5 with a runtime for the Wago PLC provided by 3S Software, I have not used that myself so cannot comment on reliability, ease of use or support.

Wago support may be different per country. So far I have had one serious issue which took longer to fix, turned out to be a faulty library. It was fixed and works fine since. I'm pretty happy with the support I get from my local supplier. I have met the guys in person and they are always quick to respond to my questions.
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Old July 14th, 2018, 08:46 PM   #41
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+1 for changing your fieldbus. If you desire near real time response you’ll need to look to EtherCAT or Ethernet/IP. They are both UDP protocols that use implicit, cyclic messaging. This makes data transmission much faster. They typically also have less dependence on processor scan time since they don’t have to send read requests synchronously with the program scan.

ASi is also a viable option if you are primarily using DIO. I’ve moved as much as I can to direct fieldbus devices since it simplifies the architecture and speeds commissioning.

CoDeSys could also be run on an IPC. If you’re having platform issues you could run a windows embedded target RT Linux target.

It sounds like you may have more of an issue with lbraries and documentation.

Another platform that has popped up is B+R Automation. I haven’t used them but have heard good things
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Old July 14th, 2018, 10:13 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewE View Post
Sorry for the incredibly late reply. The issues we have had are;
- Used Turck PLCs originally but they were not fast/large enough for our programs (this is second hand information. Our equipment is usually 200 I/O points almost exclusively digital.
- We did not have any support from Turck for CodeSys questions and could not locate a good knowledge base.
- Switched to Wago and suffered thru many firmware upgrades until our programs finally stopped locking up. We had this problem for over a year while we were rolling out equipment.
- Having the same issue with CodeSys support on Wago. A lot of back and forth about if the program is"wrong" or the platform can't support it. Some of our guys like pushing Wago to improve but I would rather focus our efforts on improving our product.
- Many man-hours lost working on ModBus communications. We have found them too slow for many real-time situations. We have nearly turned ModBus communications into cottage industry.
- We use an older version of CodeSys, v2.3, but my understanding is that Wago cannot support the newer version.
- Just not used to such a steep learning curve and having to search so hard for information. I have programmed in many other platforms but have not had to spend nearly as much time as I do now.

Hey DrewE, I do understand what you'r feeling, rolling out machines with an unjustified proper functioning of the program loaded in it. Which might result to techs going back in the field to update program, firmware or fix something.

What I am understanding from your second post is that, you've got multiple problem to be dealt with.

- First! like previous comments explained, Modbus is a sloppy, lazy protocol. If you'r looking for response time, Modbus won't give you, especially if you have couple of drives daisy-chained in you architecture (Not quite sure what your system entails). Best option is EtherNet IP or Modbus TCP/IP can come close.

Secondly! CodeSys is a fantastic platform, if you know how to program it. Spend a little time get up to speed if you firm cannot move to AB or other in-house names. Programming over different protocols could be tactical. I had used CodeSys 2.3 on Wago PLC 7 years ago on water ballast system, worked just fine.

Thirdly! consider reviewing your code. Are you using FBs (R/W, single or double),
(not quite sure such FB in your ladder program). Years back I had come across someone using single-r/w FB to execute multiple r/w command.

Fourthly!, Touch base with your distributor, and/or Wago field application engineer for help, if phone support couldn't help. They should have one in your territory.
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Old July 16th, 2018, 12:25 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by BITS N BYTES View Post
If you like AB DO NOT go with the Micro 800 series. You will be bitterly disappointed, especially if you are already familiar with their RS LOGIX family.


My 2 cents.
This. CCW is the absolute worst piece of software I have ever ever used.
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Old July 16th, 2018, 05:45 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by janner_10 View Post
This. CCW is the absolute worst piece of software I have ever ever used.
The old versions I agree with but the new ones im OK with, every version released is getting better... I hated TIA when it first came out but its also getting better, hell as far as that goes I hated RSLogix 5000 v8
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Old July 17th, 2018, 05:41 PM   #45
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As always, depends on requirements. For our needs, I chose Beckhoff Automation EtherCAT ~2005 since it had the fastest response (<1 ms). It has grown immensely since then w/ EtherCAT I/O from many vendors and many modules from Beckhoff. It is ideal for more scientific projects, but they have simple low-cost processors and I/O is very affordable and flexible. B&R Automation was the next fastest then.

Wago started w/ Beckhoff and remains with the original K-bus I/O, which is similar to RS-485 speeds. Automation Direct (Koyo) and similar are for the lowest cost, and if their size and speed is acceptable, might be the best choice, especially for OEM use. Many OEM machine producers use more purpose-built controllers such as from Galil or Delta Computers.

Re programming, I started w/ Structured Text and Sequential Function Chart, since I am an engineer who knew standard languages (Basic, C, ...). I have used Ladder Logic on a few A-B ControlLogix and wonder why most prefer that, but easiest to run with what you know.
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