Legal To Print Training Certificates - Rockwell or Siemens

I held a small class for a company giving PLC basics courses.

Is it possible to put the name of the brand I taught them with on the certificate without being sued for using the name..

Ex. PLC Basic Troubleshooting 101 - Allen Bradley
Ex. Basic Siemens PLC Programming


Any tips would be appreciated.



Thank you

As long as you don't claim the class to be an Allen Bradley authorized or sponsored class when it isn't there shouldn't be any problems. You can always put (R) or (T) after the name to indicate the name or brand is registered or trademarked.

https://rachelbrenke.com/can-i-use-this-when-a-trademark-can-and-cannot-be-used/

I agree. As long as you aren't claiming to be those manufacturers or using their course name/number in your cert you should be just fine.

Maybe include "Issued by: Your company name"


OG

Actually I don't agree. Technically, because it is not an approved class, the certificates don't hold any value other than as promotional documents which makes the use of the Allen Bradley and/or Siemens names promotional. That constitutes a violation of copyright laws. Having said that, for it to be an issue, the first thing that would have to happen is someone at Rockwell and/or Siemens would have to care and if you're talking about a few dozen certificates a year the likelihood of that is slim to none so you're probably safe. At worst you would get notice from one of them to stop and again, I simply don't see that happening unless you become very successful at which point you could probably get permission to use the names.

Thanks for the replies. I don't typically do training. This was just for a small class of 6 people.

They just want to have something saying they did some kind of training since they did sit through a week of me rambling on. haha.



Thanks for the info!

Firejo said:

Actually I don't agree. Technically, because it is not an approved class, the certificates don't hold any value other than as promotional documents which makes the use of the Allen Bradley and/or Siemens names promotional. That constitutes a violation of copyright laws. Having said that, for it to be an issue, the first thing that would have to happen is someone at Rockwell and/or Siemens would have to care and if you're talking about a few dozen certificates a year the likelihood of that is slim to none so you're probably safe. At worst you would get notice from one of them to stop and again, I simply don't see that happening unless you become very successful at which point you could probably get permission to use the names.

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What if the training name was with regards to the name of the product (TIA Portal, RS Studio 31, etc..)?

A thread I read on fair use......

If you’re using the brand name to reference or identify the brand itself, with no intention to identify it with your own brand, then you are likely not infringing on someone else’s mark. This is referred to as “nominative fair use.”

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Also, his certificate is not "promotional" material in my mind, because he didn't advertise come and get certified on Allen-Bradley. That would be promotional. A certificate of completion is simply the end result of attending the training.

I worked as a trainer for Rockwell for years and this wouldn't bother me in the least. But if he had said "come get certified on Rockwell", that would have been another story. Not that my approval or disapproval carries any legal weight.

And whether it was the company name or the product name I don't think would matter. Allen-Bradley and Studio 5000 are both registered trademarks. If they were just trademarks, that might free things up somewhat.

OG

I would just call it something something basic PLC programming.



You could then specify what the contents of the training were.

Firejo said:

That constitutes a violation of copyright laws.

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I'm fairly certain that Trademark laws are what is relevant here, not copyright.

Copyright would probably protect Siemens/Rockwell if you did something like photocopy their in-house training manuals to give to your students. Trademark protects them from someone pretending to be them. From what I've read, customer confusion is usually the key. You aren't pretending to be them, and while it is probably possible to make the certificate in a way that is confusing, just do it in a way that is clear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark#Limits_and_defenses_to_claims_of_infringement

"An example of the second type is that Audi can run advertisements saying that a trade publication has rated an Audi model higher than a BMW model, since they are only using "BMW" to identify the competitor. In a related sense, an auto mechanic can truthfully advertise that he services Volkswagens"

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One note, anybody can sue anybody for anything, and then let the courts sort it out. Odds are they have way bigger pockets than you, if they decide they are cranky about something, whether or not they'd actually win in court.

Originally posted bymk42:

One note, anybody can sue anybody for anything, and then let the courts sort it out. Odds are they have way bigger pockets than you, if they decide they are cranky about something, whether or not they'd actually win in court.

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I definitely agree with this. It's where we are today, for better or worse.

Keep in mind I'm not lawyer. But I think a win for Rockwell/Siemens/etc in this case would be cease and desist. I wouldn't worry too much about the certificates that are out there.

Keith

Operaghost said:

A thread I read on fair use......

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+1

boneless said:

I would just call it something something basic PLC programming.

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I get this all the time from people looking at my trainers stating that they are looking for brand specific, so it will stand out on their resume or with the company thats flipping the bill "I have completed training for brand X"... just looks better than not having brand X

I do not offer any but if I did I would not worry about it, they (RA and Siemens) have thousands of students every year and they are not going to come after you if you say "Bubba has completed our course (Timeismoney08 PLC Training) in Allen Bradley Studio 5000 and now can fix anything"

On the safe side... put on the bottom a disclaimer Timeismoney08 PLC Training is not affiliated with Rockwell or Allen Bradley

kamenges said:

I definitely agree with this.

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I dont, Rockwell's and Siemens lawyers get way too much money to even think about someone that is teaching 20 people a year and what name are on the paperwork, they could care less... also your going to punish someone that is teaching people how to use your products so they will in the future be buying your products? this is what they want as it generates more revenue.

kamenges said:

I definitely agree with this. It's where we are today, for better or worse.

Keep in mind I'm not lawyer. But I think a win for Rockwell/Siemens/etc in this case would be cease and desist. I wouldn't worry too much about the certificates that are out there.

Keith

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Hah, fair. I thought it reasonable to mention the worst case scenario, but I should have been clearer that it's like a .000001% chance. Even a strongly worded letter or C&D is probably only like a .01% chance.