Keyence SZ-V Scanner Muting

77nomad

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I tried searching. I even called tech but I can't seem to figure this out. I am using a scanner to prevent someone walking under a carriage that moves vertically. When the carriage reaches the floor to load and unload I need to mute the scanner. Had that all fine and dandy until cycling power on the machine. The scanner doesn't come back in a muted state, Keyence has confirmed they wont ever. So how to get back to a muted state after bootup? Tech says I need the Mute sensor, override signal and reset signals in that order to remute. I haven't been any kind of successful with this.

Not sure if I'm just in the weeds or if something else is wrong. Attached is what I'm using to trigger mute and what I thought should work to initiate override.

Thanks!

Capture 3.PNG
 

Attachments

  • Scanner_Test_1.zip
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So is the problem that all three of those - Muting, Override, Reset - remain 1s when the power returns to the scanner? So they don't repeat the sequence?


If the Muting goes to 0, does that force the other two - Override, Reset - to 0?
 
Last edited:
No, I use the NOT of "scanner is muted" from the scanner to break the first scan latch. The manual says the muting inputs need to be true to override.
 
I tried searching. I even called tech but I can't seem to figure this out. I am using a scanner to prevent someone walking under a carriage that moves vertically. When the carriage reaches the floor to load and unload I need to mute the scanner. Had that all fine and dandy until cycling power on the machine. The scanner doesn't come back in a muted state, Keyence has confirmed they wont ever. So how to get back to a muted state after bootup? Tech says I need the Mute sensor, override signal and reset signals in that order to remute. I haven't been any kind of successful with this.

Not sure if I'm just in the weeds or if something else is wrong. Attached is what I'm using to trigger mute and what I thought should work to initiate override.

Thanks!


I think your big issue is going to be that those Keyence safety lasers cannot be muted unless the zones they are looking to mute are "clear" aka, there's nothing in them. Im not 100 percent sure on the Warning Zone A and B on the laser, but I know with about 99 percent certainty that is how the Protection Zone muting works on the laser. So if I'm following how you want to set your system up the carriage that's on the floor in the load/unload position is in fact in the lasers protection zone when the carriage is up off of the floor? If that's the case, then as I said above, I think your issue is going to be that you cannot mute the laser with something IN the protection zone.

Perhaps look into banked switching on the laser and maybe that along with the muting function will get you going in the right direction.
 
I think your big issue is going to be that those Keyence safety lasers cannot be muted unless the zones they are looking to mute are "clear" aka, there's nothing in them. Im not 100 percent sure on the Warning Zone A and B on the laser, but I know with about 99 percent certainty that is how the Protection Zone muting works on the laser. So if I'm following how you want to set your system up the carriage that's on the floor in the load/unload position is in fact in the lasers protection zone when the carriage is up off of the floor? If that's the case, then as I said above, I think your issue is going to be that you cannot mute the laser with something IN the protection zone.

Perhaps look into banked switching on the laser and maybe that along with the muting function will get you going in the right direction.
I think what I'm trying to accomplish can be done by putting the scanner into override and moving the carriage. I can't seem to get the scanner to go into override though. The capture in my first post is from the manual describing how but like I said, I cant seem to get it to work.
 
1) When the scanner recovers after it gets power back, after losing power while in the muted state, is the OSSD in the OFF state?

2) How does B3:0/2 become 1 at any time other than when [First Pass = S:1/15] is 1 AND [Muted or Overrride Condition From Scanner = I:0/2] is 0?


3) In the OP, which pieces of this system are recovering from power loss?


Finally, this seems to be a safety application written for a MicroLogix 1400; does the ML1400 have safety instructions?


N.B. Attaching PDF of [LAD 16 - CUSTOM] file.
 
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[Ignore my previous post.


I am making all of these queries, but they are based on a lot of assumptions on my part; so if explaining it all to me is not worth your time, just say the word and I can bow out.
]





1) When the scanner recovers after it gets power back, after losing power while in the muted state, is the OSSD in the OFF state?

2) How does B3:0/2 become 1 at any time other than when [First Pass = S:1/15] is 1 AND [Muted or Overrride Condition From Scanner = I:0/2] is 0?

3) In the situation described in the original post, which pieces of this system are recovering from power loss?


Also, if the OP is looking for a way to mute the OSSD of the scanner, after a scanner power failure, when the carriage is at the bottom of its travel and is triggering the Mute Prox (do I understand that right?), then what is to stop someone, during normal operation when the carriage is not triggering the [Mute Prox], walking into the scanner and subsequently triggering the [Mute Prox] in some fashion manually, thus initiating an override and reset in the PLC, and therefore a Mute of the scanner causing the carriage to move again?


Finally, this seems to be a safety application written for a MicroLogix 1400; does the ML1400 have safety instructions?

N.B. Attaching PDF of [LAD 16 - CUSTOM] file.
 
I think what I'm trying to accomplish can be done by putting the scanner into override and moving the carriage. I can't seem to get the scanner to go into override though. The capture in my first post is from the manual describing how but like I said, I cant seem to get it to work.


Understood. I have never set these up to go into an override state that you’re describing, only a muted state. Furthermore the other poster in here is correct in his observation that the ML1400 is in no way a safety controller and therefore shouldn’t be used to accomplish any of these functions on a system with a CATx rating.
 
can you upload a PDF of that logic (.RSS)?

Here ya go.

Ediat: Didn't see you reply earlier.

There is also a light curtain on the approach to this machine. The scanner is a customer request in addition to vertical curtains, all enclosed with one way to approach. the carriage. The scanner is passed that curtain zone so that answers the what is to stop someone from flagging the mute prox. I understand the MLX isn't a safety PLC but this is what I'm given. Not what I chose. I am not the designer, just the programmer.
 
Last edited:
[Ignore my previous post.


I am making all of these queries, but they are based on a lot of assumptions on my part; so if explaining it all to me is not worth your time, just say the word and I can bow out.
]





1) When the scanner recovers after it gets power back, after losing power while in the muted state, is the OSSD in the OFF state?

2) How does B3:0/2 become 1 at any time other than when [First Pass = S:1/15] is 1 AND [Muted or Overrride Condition From Scanner = I:0/2] is 0?

3) In the situation described in the original post, which pieces of this system are recovering from power loss?


Also, if the OP is looking for a way to mute the OSSD of the scanner, after a scanner power failure, when the carriage is at the bottom of its travel and is triggering the Mute Prox (do I understand that right?), then what is to stop someone, during normal operation when the carriage is not triggering the [Mute Prox], walking into the scanner and subsequently triggering the [Mute Prox] in some fashion manually, thus initiating an override and reset in the PLC, and therefore a Mute of the scanner causing the carriage to move again?


Finally, this seems to be a safety application written for a MicroLogix 1400; does the ML1400 have safety instructions?

N.B. Attaching PDF of [LAD 16 - CUSTOM] file.
1) No the OSSD are off.

2) I used that bit just as a way to break the latch. set by the first scan. I could see now where using this might cause issues. It was just something I plugged in while spit balling. I think (can't remember Friday very well) I ran it just toggling B3:0/2 manually with no luck.

3) This would be the entire machine. PLC, Scanner, VFD's etc.
 

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