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Old January 13th, 2010, 02:56 PM   #1
BobB
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Schneider - Unity Pro - Citect etc

Is anyone experiencing the 'Schneiderisation' of everything they own?
I received a quote for Unity Pro small and Unity Pro alliance from my Schneider rep. Alliance was for Systems Integrators and it was about $1700 less discount.
Schneider have discontinued it as an SI package and now it is about $5500!!!! Only other option is to join their SI program that is $3000 per year for Unity Pro software and Citect.
When you look at Unity Pro it is not that good in my view anyway - too clunky - and I am already a Citect siver SI at a cost of $750 per year.
I was considering using some of the M340 PLCs on some of my jobs despite the clunkyness of Unity Pro and the fact that the addressing regime is an absolute pain - %I.0.3.10 etc. Whatever happened to just typing in numbers and the software interpreting it for you?
The M340 just went out the window for me!!
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Old January 14th, 2010, 12:04 AM   #2
chud
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Bob here we still get the SI packages for a lot less than the normal packages.We just bought a 10 user package that includes pl7 pro,unity,Proworks,and vijeo citect for way less than $5500.Also I tend too disagree on the unity issue being to clunky. The addressing should only be done once as with most other brands. Also I find the m340 an absolute joy to work with. Preformance and functionality is gr8.
But it sounds like you have made up ur mind already.......
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Old January 14th, 2010, 02:58 PM   #3
BobB
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Yep - it has gone out the door.
Schneider are putting in an SAP system worldwide. It went in to India first and Ozz was next. Absolute nightmare - cannot get stock - deliveries way behind - half the help centre people not turning up for work because they are too stressed out from customers abusing them on the phone. Perhaps it will all change when you get SAP in your neck of the woods.
Cannot even place an order by phone anymore - great whe you are driving in the car and trying to place an order with no access to a fax nachine.
Even worse, ring and check stock, fax the order, they finbally get to it the next day and there is no stock anymore - and no phone call to let you know so you can make other arrangements.
They have gone from my best supplier to probably my worst since SAP came in.
My rep finds it hard to even get out to see customers any more as he spends nearly every day putting out fires.
Hopefully it is all sorted out before it gets to you.
One thing is for sure it will not go into Europe (France in particular) until it is all sorted out.
I am sure they have lost an enormous amount of business here in the last few months.
They actually completely closed for 2 weeks to put it in place - could not get anything out of them.
One thing I find an absolute pain with Unity Pro is that the only support they have for Excel is import/export csv files - I am used to copy and paste with my current preferred PLC - copy out, modify and paste straight back in. Makes typing %I.0.1.15 or whatever in a breeze instead of an absolute chore.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 11:53 PM   #4
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Bob I know that frustration as Schneider made the SAP change here 2 years ago and it was a total nightmare. For about 7 months it was impossible to get any stock on time. Also the items to stock was decided by book keepers and not product managers which made it even worse.
example: I need two items to complete a unit. stupid example is a gv2 and the auxilery block. they would stock the one and not the other...... we had to sell siemens for certain projects which was also a mess.
Luckily its been a year now without a glitch.
As said before I regard plc wise the m340 very highly
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Old January 15th, 2010, 01:18 AM   #5
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Agreed that it is quite capable. Schneider actually pride themselves on the FBs provided with Unity Pro so they tell me. I asked where the floating point function blocks were and they could not find any. Wrote my own in ST inside an FB. Funny thing was their 'technical expert' was unable to help either. Sometimes I wonder. I found the ST statements required myself.

I am a bit surprised they appear to have not implemented 64 bit floating point in the M340. I sometimes work with some pretty large floating point numbers and you lose resolution when the numbers get up. You have to go to 64 bit to get decent resolution sometimes. Am I wrong and it is there?

I wish I could buy the package you have here quite cheaply.
The $3000 odd pack includes Citect and Unity Pro etc but you have to pay each year. Does not include screen software as far as I am aware. Hope they do not kill it and do what they have done here. Even worse they did not tell their automation reps!

My Omron software (full pack with screen software, motion software, temperature controller software etc etc) is about $2500 and it does all the PLCs and screens. Also there is a PLC simulator and screen simulator and the 2 work together!!
All updates are free until there is a major revision and that costs about $750 less discount. Pretty inexpensive quite frankly. The next version is due and is Windows 7 compliant. The current version that is Vista compliant will run properly on Windows 7 but requires a program from Microsoft (free) to run the older halp files. That is the only thing required.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 02:08 AM   #6
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While on the case - another couple of French companies that cause me heaps of grief.

Legrand - good product - good prices - great rep - no phone orders - I do not have a facs machine in the vehichle - take no notice of a customers commitment to a certain amount of product in writing - place an order and no stock - lousy service - I pay maximum 45 days - one of the best accounts they have - account stopped after 30 days - then they wonder why I change supplier.

Areva-TD (protection relays) - SAP - takes up to 6 weeks to open an account!!!!! - want 50% cash up front before they will process an order - 6-8 weeks delivery - nothing on the shelf.

What is happening with these twits these days?

Prices are ridiculous and they wonder why you go somewhere else when you can get the same functionality for half the price.

Hijacked my own thread - feel better now!

And yes, you are right, Siemens are an absolute bigger pain in the 'A'!! Gave them away years ago.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 03:25 AM   #7
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There is definitely fb for floating point. Maybe they should have looked for real number function blocks and not for "floating point". Confirmed that it doesnt do 64 bit floating point, but then again I have never even come close to 32bit real value limits (4294967296). And as said you can just link to double words. Regarding the omron, I also have cx one, but doesnt impress me that much.
Unity and vijeo designers simulators also work together same as omron. updates are free except for major (same). And as windows 7 is concerned any software that ran under vista normally works under windows 7, the only problem comes in with the drivers that needs to be updated.
We can go on like this forever, but thing is i'm not going to leave a prduct I like and know well because of some admin hickups. That happens and has to most electrical suppliers world wide
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Old January 15th, 2010, 03:49 AM   #8
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Hi Bob. Rumour has it that Schneider has bought Areva so it just gets worse.
I have given up on Citect support, I can never get them on the phone and 95% of Schneider have no idea what or who Citect is.
A good product ruined.
Regards Alan
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Old January 15th, 2010, 04:07 AM   #9
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Sounds to me like there is some issues with schneider in Australia. We get excellent service here.
Why not use the world support centre in dubai.(obviously of no use if you need onsite help), but good for over the phone help or via e-mail
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Old January 15th, 2010, 02:48 PM   #10
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Hi Alan
Quote:
Hi Bob. Rumour has it that Schneider has bought Areva so it just gets worse.
Possibly be no different Alan. Schneider have bought lots of businesses and a lot of them have been allowed to run as they were - that could change. For example they have owned Xantrex US (battery chargers/inverters - solar power etc) for some time now (couple of years) but it has been left alone. Wish they had left Citect alone!!

Quote:
Sounds to me like there is some issues with schneider in Australia. We get excellent service here.
Sure is - as I stated they are now probably my worst supplier from being my best. Everyone I speak to is complaining. Their opposition is having a field day. Board builders cannot even get stock out of them in a reasonable time and when it arrives half of it is missing. One GREAT thing about the new SAP system is that stock that has not been booked in is shown as available. Takes another week to book it in when you have been told it is in stock and available! Sitting on tail waiting for gear - customer has the you know whats because he cannot get his control panel or send the panel to site and then get on a plane a week or so later and finish the job on site - there goes the profit from that job.

I went to the release of the new 'Schneider SI program' in Sydney late last year. I reckon the best thing that came out of that was pretty good bacon and eggs on a boat on Sydney Harbour! It even rained - that should have told us something!

Apparently the Citect guys fought with Schneider for months to try and get a support program that was 'reasonable'. It is not very reasonable from an SI's point of view unless you are one of the big guys and are happy to actively use and promote all things Schneider.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 03:12 PM   #11
Dua Anjing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Case View Post
I have given up on Citect support, I can never get them on the phone and 95% of Schneider have no idea what or who Citect is.
A good product ruined.
Regards Alan
I thought it was only me ! It's just easier to battle on with my problems or find another way to deal with them than to go thru the pain of their support system
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Old January 15th, 2010, 03:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Everyone I speak to is complaining. Their opposition is having a field day. Board builders cannot even get stock out of them in a reasonable time and when it arrives half of it is missing
From what i hear, it has been the same here as well, they must of done the SAP upgrade as an 'Australasian' thing.


It is like Schneider are doing what Tyco did 10+ years ago, buy buy buy, but then eventually they sold off companies as well....
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