Siemens PLCs

damica1 said:

If you already have that much experience with AB, why would your company want to do a 180 degree turn around.

That just sounds counter-productive!

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At a certain point, the expertise in a certain platform isn't valuable enough because of the price they charge for it.

There's also the fact that AB is very limited in what and how you can do things, which is not the case with Siemens. I can't say for sure in this case as I haven't seen the software, but am willing to bet that it has very little to no reusable code, which is not the standard with Siemens kit.

On code reuse alone, the savings can be colossal... although it would imply people start thinking differently.

MikeyN said:

We are looking to get away from the Rockwell money pit that we have found ourselves in. We have been presented with a great opportunity to upgrade many of our antique machines (roughly 75% obsolescence) and want to check out our options for the future. Plus it's a new toy to play with, and who doesn't love new toys? And cookies, who can argue with cookies?

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I was going down the same road a couple of months ago, had a chat with Siemens rep in the area and they cut us a pretty sweet deal on parts for the upgrade, plus test bench (much, much better than a starter kit). Have you done the same?

JRW said:

Geez.... The S7-1200 is a $400 plc
There isn’t an AB equivalent for the money

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They have several

cardosocea said:

At a certain point, the expertise in a certain platform isn't valuable enough because of the price they charge for it.

There's also the fact that AB is very limited in what and how you can do things, which is not the case with Siemens. I can't say for sure in this case as I haven't seen the software, but am willing to bet that it has very little to no reusable code, which is not the standard with Siemens kit.

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The price difference between Siemens and AB is nothing, really when you think about it.... the hardware compared to the labor cost is just a fraction of the project also I have been programming since the early 90's and have never found something I can do in one brand and not the other, its just a different way of doing it

I like them both and they both have there place and is just up to the end user what brand they want, in the end its just a name and the real magic is in the way the code is wrote

Mark
Interesting. Since I tried to pass along fake news. Haha
What’s their equivalent to 1212?
I need 16 devices to hang off profinet (AB ethernet ip)
Built in web page
4 hs counter inputs
64 bit floating point
Plc open commands
Pid

And a company in SC to build a trainer
Can you square me away?

JRW said:

Mark
Interesting. Since I tried to pass along fake news. Haha
What’s their equivalent to 1212?
I need 16 devices to hang off profinet (AB ethernet ip)
Built in web page
4 hs counter inputs
64 bit floating point
Plc open commands
Pid

And a company in SC to build a trainer
Can you square me away?

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I got you covered up until the company in SC.... we are moving back to the NC hills the end of this year

We just closed on some property in Blowing Rock, should be a good change once we get moved in

And I got your fake news but the 1212 or 1214 is a great little PLC

geniusintraining said:

The price difference between Siemens and AB is nothing, really when you think about it.... the hardware compared to the labor cost is just a fraction of the project also I have been programming since the early 90's and have never found something I can do in one brand and not the other, its just a different way of doing it

I like them both and they both have there place and is just up to the end user what brand they want, in the end its just a name and the real magic is in the way the code is wrote

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I beg to differ... Profibus has been a standard since early 90's. How many field buses has AB gone through in the same amount of time?

If there is one thing Rockwell excel at is planned obsolescence... I have to give them credit for that. I have a CLX with less than 10 years at work and one of their idiotic fieldbuses. The fieldbus and IO system has been discontinued, upgrading the fieldbus would require me to upgrade everything except the backplate and power supply.



Obviously, you can do everything in every platform... hell, you can even put an arduino if you fancied writing all the libraries and conformance testing, the difference is that some brands actually adopted functions from the beginning and others brought them on because people complained.

geniusintraining said:

The price difference between Siemens and AB is nothing, really when you think about it.... the hardware compared to the labor cost is just a fraction of the project also I have been programming since the early 90's and have never found something I can do in one brand and not the other, its just a different way of doing it

I like them both and they both have there place and is just up to the end user what brand they want, in the end its just a name and the real magic is in the way the code is wrote

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Online HW changes. One point for AB.
Online AOI changes. One point for Siemens.
Easy online view of AOI's and their instances. 10 points for AB.
Multi form engineering software. One point for Siemens.
Firmware version control within the engineering software. Several points for Siemens.

If I keep going now Siemens will end up with a lot more points than AB. Doesn't mean AB is utter ****e. Just means Siemens fits our needs better because there are some things AB just can't do. Logging on a panel HMI for instance. Huge dealbreaker for us.

Jeebs said:

If I keep going now Siemens will end up with a lot more points than AB.

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And you can name more for AB if you wanted to, my point....

GiT said:

and is just up to the end user what brand they want

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You can do data logging in a PC and have a PC based HMI, again you can do it all in any brand you just need to do it a different way

cardosocea said:

I beg to differ

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Yes we do that a lot... if I ever make it to the other side of the pond we will need to have a drink and talk about them

I used S7-1200 as just a brand new guy. I took a course in it with Mr Mike at AT and it was easy to get going with.
Its just sitting on my shelf now as it was the first PLC I ever purchased. I only mention it as when I started using MICRO820 with CCW, it felt oddly familiar to the teachings in S7-1200 a few years prior.

Just for comparison sake. That's the extent of my SIEMENS experience.

geniusintraining said:

You can do data logging in a PC and have a PC based HMI, again you can do it all in any brand you just need to do it a different way

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Hard to find a 7" touch screen that works natively with, given the space available in the panel, a nuc that's hardly more than a terminal client.

Jeebs said:

Online HW changes. One point for AB.
Easy online view of AOI's and their instances. 10 points for AB.

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Hardware changes online are interesting... particularly as Siemens doesn't even let you change the state/mode of an analog channel online.

As for the easy online view of the AOI's and their instances, Siemens has had the ability of clicking on an instance of a function block and monitor (which will only monitor that one call) since at least Step7 V5.5.
Siemens also allows this to be done on specific calls to functions which is something AB doesn't let you do on subroutines that are called repeatedly. Hence why I don't understand how it is better visualisation.
Do you prefer to see data only or the data and code acting on said data?

geniusintraining said:

Yes we do that a lot... if I ever make it to the other side of the pond we will need to have a drink and talk about them

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That would be good. I'm always open to learn.

Jeebs said:

Easy online view of AOI's and their instances. 10 points for AB.

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In the other thread it is clear that you refer to STEP7 Classic and S7-300. That does not apply to TIA and S7-1200/1500 as is relevant to this thread.

Apart from that, I wont engage in a Siemens vs AB troll fest !

cardosocea said:

Hardware changes online are interesting... particularly as Siemens doesn't even let you change the state/mode of an analog channel online.

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On the Process side with S7-400s (possibly only 400H?) there is a feature called CIR (Configure In Run) that allows you to at least add new modules in run. I'm not sure if it supports changing what's already there, though.

Agree, though, definitely not a mainstream capability.

mk42 said:

On the Process side with S7-400s (possibly only 400H?) there is a feature called CIR (Configure In Run) that allows you to at least add new modules in run. I'm not sure if it supports changing what's already there, though.

Agree, though, definitely not a mainstream capability.

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The M580 from Schneider has some of that capability. You can change I/O module from the HW configuration online, digital and analog. You can also add RIO. It's probably going to appear in Siemens with Tia Portal V21 in 2-3 years.

It's not expansive, yes. But I felt it could have been better. Like I said the ET200S CPU is far better and not much more expansive.


Maybe I had bad luck, but the S7-1200 is the only CPU where I ran out of work memory (I did not pick it), and where I had pain in porting a V13 application to a V12 CPU (the customer did not want V13), with functions not existing in the V12 firmware, with standard siemens block versions changing parameters randomly between the two versions also...


I had a S7-1200 sending files to a filezilla server... Connection was working great when TIA portal was online and looking at the rung.... When Tia portal was offline or not looking at the rung, the connection did not work.... I found out the problem eventually in the siemens block versions (one more hidden parameter to write in the V12 CPU block compared to the V13 block), but never had any explanation why it worked with TIA online.

Iner said:

The M580 from Schneider has some of that capability. You can change I/O module from the HW configuration online, digital and analog. You can also add RIO. It's probably going to appear in Siemens with Tia Portal V21 in 2-3 years.

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Lol, I meant on the "mainstream" (meaning people on this board talk about them) factory focused Siemens products.

I'm sure there are other vendors that can do it.