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Old November 21st, 2020, 03:17 PM   #1
AutomationTechBrian
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Powerflex 700 replacement, EI/P Communications, RSLogix v17 PLC

I'm having communication/parameter problems trying to replace a Powerflex 700 in a centrifuge application with a controllogix PLC, version 17, and Ethernet I/P communications. Just as an added twist, this is the most difficult, confrontational customer I've ever had, and there is a ton of pressure on me to figure it out. I'd like to share the details of what has happened so far to see what you think.

Original Drive: Powerflex 700, 20BD077A3AYNAEC0, Series B, Firmware 8.007
Replacement: Same..... w/ Firmware 10.004
480v, 60HP, 77 Amps
This is for Centrifuge #1, main drive. There is a twin, Centrifuge #2 that is still operational. I accepted the job when I saw the keypad had saved parameters, and my office found a surplus/new drive with firmware v.10.

I replaced the drive, downloaded the saved parameters, and cycled power. The blinking LEDs on the 20-comm-e module told me there was a communication problem. LED #1: Solid green, LED #2 & #3: slow blinking together. LED #4: off. I hooked up RSLinx to the PLC and checked the version.... RSLogix 5000, v17. At that point I was done until I came back with v17 on my XP VM.

I had a XP VM with version 12 already, so I downloaded and installed almost every version from 13, up to 19. When I went back to the customer's, I found that I didn't have the driver installed for my USB to Ethernet adaptor, so I used DF1 to connect and upload. The drive that wasn't connecting was 192.168.0.50. The keypad IP address was 192.168.1.17. That made me suspect that the keypad parameters were not correct. So I used CCW to connect to both Centrifuge #1 & #2 to upload and print out the non-default parameters to compare. I found a few other parameters that didn't match up. There were a few differences in accel and decel times, which probably not that big of a deal. There were some differences in values that appear to be speed control, PID tuning values (I'll check later). It appears the values were saved before final machine set-up because the differences were pretty large. Then, the IP address was obviously different, but the subnet was the same. And a couple of "masking values" were different, which is the first time I've delt with anything like that. I'll post a picture of the parameter comparison on a separate post on this thread. I'm hoping someone with a deeper knowledge of the PF700 parameters will share their thoughts on the differences.

I tried changing the IP address with the keypad. After cycling power the comm LEDs remained the same... the PLC was not communicating. Just to check, I pinged both the PLC and the VFD on my host laptop. Everything was on the same network.

Chatting with my local Allen Bradley supplier tech desk, they brought up the point that the drive parameters could very likely be stored in the PLC. The DF1 connection was extremely slow and I was running out of business hours to work. I brought up my saved file from earlier in the day, double-clicked on the powerflex 700 drive in the I/O tree, and clicked on the "drive" tab. No parameters were showing, and there was a notice that "Drive page could not load due to the following error: No host device. This problem can be fixed from the Module Definition dialog." Then I remembered what happened earlier that day when I initially double-clicked on the drive in the I/O tree....

After the initial upload of the parameters, I double-clicked on the Powerflex 700 in the I/O tree, which triggered a decompression and installation of an add-on for the drive... I'm guessing maybe "Drive Executive" which I assume is embedded in v17. As I think about this, I'm wondering if the initial upload did not include the drive parameters because Drive Executive was not installed yet... ???

It was Friday, and they only work until 3 PM. I ran out of time and told the customer I'd have to return on another day, hopefully
returning with more ideas about why the drive didn't communicate to the PLC.

At this point I'm thinking of a couple different possibilities. Before going back, I'll need to get my USB to Ethernet adaptor working for that XP VM and then connect to the PLC through the Ethernet I/P driver in Linx. Then, I'll try uploading the program again, now that Drive Executive is installed. Maybe the parameters are in the PLC after all. If they are, I'll need to understand how to push them down to the drive. Is there a procedure to do that?

I'd appreciate any thoughts on any of this. The customer is new, and surprisingly confrontational, which adds to the challenges of fixing a legacy machine that I've never seen before. I'd love to succeed and gain a little trust with them. There is a "Plan B" that I'm contemplating...

My "Plan B" is seeing if the control board can be removed from the bad drive and inserted into a different PF700 that I have in my shop to read the parameters. We are mainly a VFD company, so there have been times where we have done this with other brands. I checked with my two senior techs, but they've never tried it with Powerflex drives. I have a couple of working Powerflex drives in my shop that I could try, but they are smaller drives, so right away there is less of a chance that it will work without some kind of major fault. I'd be interested in finding out if anyone else has tried this with success.

I'll add some attachments to this post a little later today. There's COVID at home, so I'm living in my shop for 10 days. The only internet I have here is my phone. I'll take my laptop somewhere with wi-fi and upload the .ACD file later on.
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Old November 21st, 2020, 03:53 PM   #2
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Alfred,

First thing I would do is put both the plc and the drive in the compatibility tool and see what the results are. It should show you which firmware revs will run with the V17 plc. It should also show you any anomaly that may be present. Once you have compatibility checked you can dive in from there.

https://compatibility.rockwellautoma...aspx?crumb=111
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Old November 21st, 2020, 03:55 PM   #3
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If you’ve never used the tool here is an example. I just picked a controller and drive as I didn’t have you’re exact plc and no way to look up the drive p/n you have right now.

https://compatibility.rockwellautoma...ns=51617,53565
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Old November 21st, 2020, 04:42 PM   #4
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Great idea. I hadn't thought of that. Before I look, I'm going to upload the .ACD file, since I'm at a place that has wi-fi for may laptop.
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File Type: zip PLC_C40.zip (980.8 KB, 6 views)
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Old November 21st, 2020, 04:50 PM   #5
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One more thing before I check compatibility... These are the parameters that did not match the other drive's non-default parameters.
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File Type: jpg Comparison.jpg (125.3 KB, 40 views)
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Old November 21st, 2020, 07:14 PM   #6
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Unless I'm doing something wrong, they look compatible. See the attached pictures for the Powerflex drive, the PLC in RSLinx, and the comparison.
Attached Images
File Type: png compare_firmware.png (45.9 KB, 6 views)
File Type: png PLCinRSLinx.png (97.0 KB, 6 views)
File Type: png PF700.png (34.4 KB, 6 views)
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Old November 22nd, 2020, 04:15 PM   #7
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Because you changed the drive from rev.8007 to rev.10, did you also change it in the Module Definition under the PowerFlex 700 module properties in the RsLogix 5000 program?

I didn't see that you did that in your notes, so that might be an issue.
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Old November 22nd, 2020, 04:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletin blues View Post
Because you changed the drive from rev.8007 to rev.10, did you also change it in the Module Definition under the PowerFlex 700 module properties in the RsLogix 5000 program?

I didn't see that you did that in your notes, so that might be an issue.
No, I didn't. But that is exactly what I was hoping to get from this post. I was a little surprised that I couldn't see the drive parameters in RSLogix after my initial upload. Now that I think about it, I suspect that I needed to upload again after decompressing and installing what I believe is Drive Executive.
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Old November 22nd, 2020, 05:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
The drive that wasn't connecting was 192.168.0.50. The keypad IP address was 192.168.1.17. That made me suspect that the keypad parameters were not correct.
Your talking about the "HIM" module correct?
How did you know the parameters were uploaded to it?
You can generally upload/download the 20-comm-e parameters separately from the PowerFlex700 parameters depending on the device selection/memory/himcopycat/ and store them in individual files.

So, it's possible you just downloaded the drive parameters and not the 20-com-e parameters, hence you can still ping 192.168.0.50.

If the drive parameters aren't matching up, someone may have just moved the HIM from one drive to another, to view a fault or something. You may have inadvertently loaded the wrong parameters to the drive... but not the 20-comm-e card.


What specifically did you load back into the drive, was it just the drive params, or the 22-com-e params, or both?
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Old November 22nd, 2020, 05:47 PM   #10
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The first thing I did was check the HIM for a saved parameter file. I found that all 4 Powerflex drives had a saved parameter file in their respective HIMs. The motor data is correct. But... it seems like the parameters saved were from before the machine was delivered and setup. The IP was not on the same network as the PLC.

The part I haven't experienced is setting up drive parameters inside of RSLogix 5000. I don't know what that looks like, so I don't know what I'm missing. I might see if I can create a lab in my shop for trying things out. I do have an old, used PF700 with a 20-comm-e module, but my PLC is new(er).... CompactLogix L16 with v. 32. I'll be surprised if they are compatible.
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Old November 22nd, 2020, 06:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
I tried changing the IP address with the keypad. After cycling power the comm LEDs remained the same... the PLC was not communicating. Just to check, I pinged both the PLC and the VFD on my host laptop. Everything was on the same network.
Now it may be possible that you might have duplicate addresses, if there is already one with 192.168.1.17. This will cause another issue, where the drive will not connect due to duplicate IP, but will give similar issues that you started with, as a duplicate IP will also cause comm issues.

Quote:
Just to check, I pinged both the PLC and the VFD on my host laptop.
You pinged 192.168.1.17 or 192.168.0.50?

If you changed the IP on the keypad, try turning off the drive to 192.168.1.17 and seeing if you can still ping 192.168.1.17. This will let you know if there is another host with that address, that you possibly may have downloaded the parameters into the new drive. That might be good to know.

It sounds like it should be 192.168.0.50?

Just looking to clarify. I'm no expert, but have some experience with the 700 series and general networking.
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Old November 22nd, 2020, 06:11 PM   #12
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Well, I know the IP has to be 192.168.0.50. And that address was not present before I changed the new PF to that IP. After I changed the IP address and cycled the power, I was able to ping that IP. And, when I uploaded the drive parameters into CCW, connected directly to the VFD, I confirmed the IP both before and after changing the IP through the HIM.
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