AB past issue

I thought I would bring this thread back up because I finally received a solution to the problem I had on this thread. I'm still a little confused on the solution, but I will try to explain.

I had the manufacturer of this press come in and try to upload from the 1756 controller and he had the same problem, "ERROR". He worked on this all day and after several calls and trial and errors he gave up for the day. The next day he decided to do a download to the controller. This was something that I was not comfortable with because I wasn't sure if the file that was being downloaded was the current one. This is why I wanted the manufacturer to do it, so it wouldn't be my butt on the line.

He did the download and it was able to go online with the controller.
I had him save the program to the laptop, so I would have the current program, so I could just go online without having to do the download again. The problem, is when he did the download it wiped out all of our settings. This press has a data bank the holds different settings for each die that we run. The settings are entered through a touchscreen and we had to go through each job and re-enter every number.

Now, if you read through the first thread, you know I've stated that I'm learning this control logix. I'm confused on how the data got reset by doing a download. He also told me that in order to keep the current "matching" program, I would have to REGULARLY back up the program off of the controller. He acted like, if the operator needed to change some data settings on a particular die then this would make the program not match the one I had previously saved on my laptop. Do the data tags,files, or registers hold there values or something when saved to a laptop? I don't know, I'm learning more and more everyday about this control logix and wouldn't doubt any of its capability.
Anybody with the time,
PLEASE explain...
TIM

At least in the case of SLC500 and MicroLogix PLCs (I don't know if this reasoning transferrs to ControlLogix) when a program upload or download takes place EVERYTHING about the PLC is transferred. This includes the logic and ALL the data tables. It is therefore wise, as was suggested, to keep a current copy of the program (along with a couple previous) any time a permanent or long term change is made. When you download you are putting the PLC back to the moment at which the upload was made.

Hi Tim,

While many ladder editors will transfer only what you select such as
plc program(s), parameters, datatables etc, in AB world uploading
and downloading transfers EVERYTHING including content of the memory. My offline copies of programs do contain all recipe values.
Newer versions of RSLogix5000 automatically syncronize your
offline copy with whatever is in the controller (including ladder
changes, pending ladder edits etc.)
If you are paranoid, make a copy of file before you go online...
It will make you feel better when something does go wrong,

OK,
Let me see if I understand. I do notice that when I open up the saved program file on my lap top some of the data tables have current value in them. Almost, like when the program was saved it also saved the data values. Now, are you saying that if I do a download the values of the data currently running in the controller will be overwritten by the file I'm downloading? If so, then OK I'm with you.

The next thing is how do I keep the current file saved? It's my understanding from this guy is that the reason we couldn't go online with the controller was because some of the data got changed through the use of the HMI and NOW the program doesn't match my offline program. Example, if I have the current file saved and 2 months go by and in that time the operators had to change a lot of the values in the data bank. If I after the 2 months, try to go online with my last saved file, it wont let me? If this is true then how would I keep the backup sycronized with the controller? Are we talking an upgrade, newer version or is there a function in RSLogix 5000 that I'm missing?
Thanks for your help.
Tim

Wow, this has gotten way to complex. Let me back up a bit and see if I can summarize and simply this.

First off, the matching file is looking for changes in configuration, logic or tags, but not tag values.

For example:

I create a project offline we will call Loader. Loader has a timer we will call TimerA. I give TimerA a preset value of 1000. I download this project (Loader) to my controller. Downloading WIPES OUT the existing project (Old_Loader) in the controller and replaces it with my project. I then disconnect my computer and walk away.

Once the system is up and running, an operator changes TimerA preset to 2000, then to 3000 then finally back to 2500. I bring my computer back and open RSLogix5000. When going online, the changes to TimerA preset values has no bearing on "matching file" status. So going online does not require an upload or a download. I just go online.

If I were to download though I would have to shut the system down (program mode) wiping out the changes the operator made and setting the preset back to the offline value of 1000.

If I choose to go online then I would see the new preset of 2500 stored in the controller. If I then switched back offline, I would see the preset revert to the offline 1000 stored on my hard drive.

If I were online and saved, then I would see a prompt stating that "tag values may have changed since your last save. To ensure that current values are saved you should upload them." Then a Yes or No to upload before saving. Saying "Yes" saves the new preset of 2500, saying "No" still saves but keeps the offline value of 1000.

If other changes were present (something other than just changed tag values) then when going online you would get the message that the offline file does not match the project in the controller. You could either upload or download. If you upload then the project in the controller is merged with the offline documentation and stored in computer RAM. You can then use the Save As feature to save the file with a new name while retaining the original file. Or you can close the file when you are done without saving and your original is maintained and the changes are not saved.

Downloading as we have already covered replaces the project in the PLC with the file on your hard drive. This not something you want to be doing on a regular basis.

So, use Upload, not download and life will be much easier. Uploading and saving from time to time will ensure that your computer has the latest tag values should you ever need to download, but is not required.

OG

OUCH!!!!!

Would you not think they would write software that gives you options?????

Well it means you need to know the difference between online and offline and upload and download. It gives you the options!

OG

I am accustomed to far more options like upload/download "I/O table yes/no", "Memory area yes/no", "Save memory area as part of the project yes/no" etc. I make the choice.

"Online/Offline/Monitor/Online Program", "Upload/download/verify" are standard otions that are available with all PLC software I have ever used.

In A-B brand PLCs (certainly not the only brand out there) today only the PLC-5 supports a partial download. There is a Tag upload/Download utility for Logix5000. Hopefully a partial download is in the works.

OG

Adding to what OG has said:

Currently, partial downloads are supported on the PLC5 with RSLogix 5. They were also supported on the PLC3 using a T4 terminal and tape deck (can't remember the 6200 features).

Version 13 of RSLogix 5000 is supposed to support partial downloads for CLX.

The ControlLogix processor maintains a log of program and tag edits so that if you go on-line with an out-of-date file, you will just be asked if you want to "apply the changes". The log is limited in size however, so if the edits have overflowed the log, you will be prompted to upload.

One thing I really, really, REALLY hate about RSLogix500 is that it arrogantly assumes it knows how I want to habndle the data files in any given operation.

I have developed a few habits to make this very annoying instead of disastrous.

1) I always put operator adjustments or tuning in separate clearly labeled files.

2) Any time I connect to a processor that has been running in the field for a while, I start out with no program loaded, and do an upload.

3) I save the uploaded file in a directory or floppy or USB memory stick where RSLogix can't find it, or else every time I hook up to a processor with the same CPU name RSLogix arrogantly asumes I want to use that uploaded program.

4) Then I run another session of RSLogix, and open my revised or file or "good" copy of the program.

5) Then I go to the uploaded scratch program, open the data file with the adjustments, highlight them, and copy them.

6) Then I go to my "good" file and open the data file and paste the adjustments and save.

7) Then I close the uploaded version of RSLogix, and go to the verison with the good logic and good data, and do a download.

Rockwell, ARE YOU LISTENG? THIS IS STUPID!!! FIX YOUR SOFTWARE!!!!!

Amen Tom. The whole process gets even more fun when you want to upgrade controllers. For example, I will soon be upgrading a 5/03 to a 5/05. The OS/FRN version of the 5/03 I am replacing does not support the BTR/BTW instructions, and I have several of these in that program for RIO data transfer(using the ladder method of ancient times ). I have minimal downtime opportunity with this particular controller, so my hope was that I could just copy over the offline 5/03 program, streamline it with the new instructions, dump it into the 5/05 on the test chassis in my office, and then just plug it in and go when the opportunity arose. But I also face the issue with operator parameters, and without the ability to do an easy synchronization of data tables, I'm stuck doing what you said with the copy/paste. Too bad there's not an easier way.

Tim,

I don't think Rockwell $oftware will make those changes any time soon.
It looks to me that problem you face is that parameters get edited
by people who shouldn't be doing it.
Bringing laptop to download good copy every time something gets out
of whack might not be the most convenient way to deal with it.
If it was me, I would probably:
- give it some tought,
- add security level(s) to setup screens (password protect them).
- log all recipe changes (user name and timestamp)
- make copy of recipies (working parameters AND default parameters)
- make sure that some of the changes can be done only by you
- add some buttons to the setup screen like "Restore default values",
"Use previos working values", "Set as default" etc.
(they should be tied in with your security).

You should be able to copy, save and restore whole recipies. Your
PLC has plenty of memory, use it. You can have:
- "apple pie default recipe"
- "apple pie current working recipe"
- "apple pie previous working recipe"
- "apple pie Tim's master recipe"
- "lemon pie default recipe"
etc.

It looks like you got yourself a little project... beerchug

panic mode said:

in AB world uploading and downloading transfers EVERYTHING including content of the memory.

Click to expand...

Sort of!

There is a way, in RSLogix500 (for the SLC/Micrologix) to make your data "static." I thought this feature was the bee's knees UNTIL I actually tried it. I found two disturbing things:

1) I couldn't make some files static. No problem, create new files and move sensitive data there.

2) I couldn't edit values in those registers online now. WHAT??? Making the data static put it into that social security lock-box we've all heard about. You can't get at it, unless you access it from a Panelview (I assume, but I'm not sure) or you write code that will allow you to dump data into that register (eg. use MOV commands and a trigger bit).

AK

Panicmode: "It looks to me that problem you face is that parameters get edited by people who shouldn't be doing it."

Tim is talking about normal adjustments and routine tuning, made from a touchscreen. That is what touchscreens are for. With most PLC brands this does not create a problem.

The fundamental problem is that with RSLogix you cannot separate data files from logic, and you cannot download logic without over writing the data files. This is a major shortcoming in RSLogix.