Comactlogix with two serial ports

I have been asked to work up a system that can communicate with two different radio networks using serial DF1 radio protocol. The existing radio network is too busy (too many nodes) and they are adding 8 more sites...the idea is to split it up on two different frequencies, and upgrade the ML1400 to a Compactlogix PLC. The 1400 is out of room for data (so I've been told) and the main plant PLC is Controllogix so they'd like to get away from SLC style addresses where ever possible. The existing remote sites are mostly Micrologix and all use DF1 radio protocol, so altering that is not an option.

So could I install a 1769-ASCII module in a chassis with a 1769-L32E and then send DF1 radio messages through it?

Is there a better choice of compactlogix platform that would offer me two serial ports?

Thanks

OkiePC said:

Is there a better choice of compactlogix platform that would offer me two serial ports?

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Hi Paul,

Not sure if they are trying to save money, if yes have a look at the 800's, you can add a couple 2080-SERIALISOL, not sure how good they would work with the radios you guys use but it would be a LOT cheaper

geniusintraining said:

Hi Paul,

Not sure if they are trying to save money, if yes have a look at the 800's, you can add a couple 2080-SERIALISOL, not sure how good they would work with the radios you guys use but it would be a LOT cheaper

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They're trying to improve performance of what they already have and allow for expansion of it. They are using GE MDS VHF band modems and polling about 40 sites already. It is terribly slow and they are adding 8 new sites.

I don't think they are willing to change all the remote sites all at once, but upgrading this main polling station to a Logix5k based PLC would accommodate a gradual migration.

I know I can use DF1 radio protocol with the built in serial port on a L32 CPU, but I am not seeing how to do that with the older packaged controller with 2 serial ports or if there is a newer model with an add on module that supports that DF1 radio protocol.

Can the Micro800 do serial DF1 Radio protocol?

OkiePC said:

Can the Micro800 do serial DF1 Radio protocol?

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No. With regards to DF1, the 2080-SERIALISOL does DF1 Full Duplex only and its a CIP based version (rather than PCCC).

OkiePC said:

Can the Micro800 do serial DF1 Radio protocol?

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Not sure... there is info for the Modbus side of the 2080-SERIALISOL but not a lot on the RS232 side, I think I have a spare one and will check later if I do

Firejo said:

No. With regards to DF1, the 2080-SERIALISOL does DF1 Full Duplex only and its a CIP based version (rather than PCCC).

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Bummer... so looks like the ASCII would be your only option, not sure if Spectrum makes any COM cards for the Compactlogix but that maybe another option to look at

The manual for the Micro800 (dated January 2019) confirms Firejo's statements.

The packaged Compactlogix and the 1769-L31 with two serial ports are obsolete.

Using RSLogix 5000 with a 1769-L32, I can set up a built in serial port for DF1 radio protocol, but I added a 1769-ASCII card and see no way to choose DF1 Radio protocol for it...I am not even sure I can do regular DF1 serial with that card...it appears to be strictly ASCII.

Maybe the newer models have an offering that would let me avoid a 3rd party device.

I'm reading up on a Prosoft module that might be a good fit.

https://www.prosoft-technology.com/Products/Gateways/PLX5x/DF1-Routing-Module

There was supposed to be a DF1 module for the 5380 released this month.. but I have heard nothing since.

Depending on what your requirements are for the serial comms, you also have the option of using a 1734-AENT or AENTR Point I/O adapter and putting as many 1734-ASCII cards on it as you require. I've done this in the past for older barcode scanners on an L32 system. I just put a Point I/O gateway anywhere they need serial comms and stick one or more ASCII cards on it.

You're correct that any of the ASCII modules are not suitable for telemetry; they don't route messages and don't support DF1 of any flavor. And I'll tell Jeev my special story about large numbers of 1734 serial modules later.

To confirm: you're looking to replace a "Main Polling Station" based on a MicroLogix 1400 with a CompactLogix controller that can communicate both with MicroLogix controllers (PCCC over DF1 Radiomodem) and with ControlLogix at the "Plant Control Station".

Rockwell didn't sell enough of the serial-telemetry-oriented 1732-L31 to make that hardware platform survive into another generation. It would have been "ideal" in that it has the right ports and protocols, but not a ton of memory.

The Prosoft DF1 module(s) are an interesting option that I have not seen yet. It would let you choose any CompactLogix platform you wish, and appears to support what you need: MicroLogix-style PCCC message types, and DF1 Radiomodem protocol.

The limit of 20 "routes" in Bridge Mode would be my concern; if you have 40 remote sites split up into 2 radio networks, you've hit the maximum capacity already.

I'm reading manuals and datasheets to try to understand the difference between the PLX51-DF1-ENI "DF1 Router" and the PLX51-DF1-MSG "DF1 Messaging Module".

Ken Roach said:

The Prosoft DF1 module(s) are an interesting option that I have not seen yet. It would let you choose any CompactLogix platform you wish, and appears to support what you need: MicroLogix-style PCCC message types, and DF1 Radiomodem protocol.

The limit of 20 "routes" in Bridge Mode would be my concern; if you have 40 remote sites split up into 2 radio networks, you've hit the maximum capacity already.

I'm reading manuals and datasheets to try to understand the difference between the PLX51-DF1-ENI "DF1 Router" and the PLX51-DF1-MSG "DF1 Messaging Module".

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I am not finished reading the manual yet, but that limit might not apply if I am using the "Unscheduled" mode (<- I think that is what it's called). This mode is described as letting the Prosoft module act as a messaging gateway and put all the polling messages and mapping in the Logix CPU.

Hopefully tomorrow I can get through the rest of the book and see if it would allow that set up to work for us.

Ken, the DF1 module I was talking about was to be from Rockwell not Prosoft. Maybe you have the pull to get some answers on that ?

All my pull is diluted by time... it's been nearly eight years since I worked there.

All I know is what I saw in Automation Fair 2018 slideshow showing that the 5069-SERIAL module that has ASCII and Modbus RTU functionality now will be getting DF1 and DH485 "in the future".

A call or e-mail to your friendly local Rockwell Solution Architect about the timeline for that module feature release would be appropriate.

Follow up

Our Rockwell Automation Specialist informed me that:

"The new CompactLogix processors, 5380’s, will utilize Compact 5000 modules. In that line, there is currently a dual serial module (5069-Serial). Currently that module only supports Modbus RTU and ASCII. There will be a firmware release, probably around March of next year, that will make this module DF1 capable as well."

I proposed to our customer to choose between using the Prosoft module or two Compactlogix PLCs each with a single serial port. His preference is to use the 1769-L35E since he already has that unit in several other applications.

I just looked at the product lifecycle status to find that it will be obsolete 12-20-2020. I am not finding any modern Compactlogix PLC with a serial port at all.

So I may still end up using the Prosoft module...we'll see what the end user decides. It's either that or we install a product that will be obsolete in about a year. Unless one of you knows of a small Logix5k CPU with RS232 and DF1 support that I missed. By the way, earlier I think I said DF1 Radio protocol, it turns out to be DF1 Half Duplex Master/Slave.

Another option that may work, Red Lion Datastation?