DeviceNet

rsdoran

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Apr 2002
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I need to know about any companies that make devicenet power supplies. I found the 1787-DPNS at Allen Bradley.

I have only dealt with one DeviceNet system before and did not design or implement most of it so bear with me if my questions seem stupid. I will work to find the answers I need but hoping some of you may have some info on hand.

I have a system that will use 7 Toshiba G7 AC inverters, they will be using a devicenet card that allows you to connect 2 (two) drives on 1 MAC ID (this part I must study).

What the PE didnt order and is now my concern is power supplies, cables and maybe configuration files/software.

Can anyone tell me what flat (or any) cable that is used for DeviceNet may be...ie brand and number?

Besides the 1787-DPNS what other brand of power supplies may there be? I know they have to be Class 2 rated by the NEC.

Last but not least, I know I will need EDS files for the Toshiba drives....what software will I need this for? I have RSNetWorx but will that work on a non-AB system?

I know its alot of questions but its relevant to my new job...I am now in a unique position that requires me to do a lot of different things but mainly building panels and being the one who's a$$ gets chewed if it isnt right.

One of my first tasks is to build a panel/cabinet for 7 Toshiba drives and a Horner RCS (a plc) using devicenet. Some of the parts were ordered before I started work, I just realized that DeviceNet requires its own power source and uses distinct cable. I also remembered that you have to do configurations to the devices...I vaguely remember HyperTerminal being used for part of this.

I am still reading material from odva.org and other places about some of this...but they dont give you much information in detail. The specs are there but details on devices arent, hopefully I will learn.

I highly appreciate any assistance that is offered...especially if its from someone that deals with devicenet devices.

As an afterthougth...the PE used Toshiba drives for this app partly because they are simple to use but partly because of price. I know AB is one of the main developers in the devicenet usage. I also know that the AB 160 smart controller AC drive is very compact and overall inexpensive. For the AB people out there a question! Can the AB 160 be used in Vector control using an encoder for positiong? The PE was told NO...I thought thats what vector control was for and I believe the 160 has vector control capabilities. I know the 160 has devicenet, can use an encoder, and can go either direction...is that enough. Last thing is price!!! With those options can the 160 be had for less that $750? That isnt the price of the Toshibas but its what I have gathered from the AB online store overall...I am curious. I am not looking for a price qoute but a general answer. OHHHHH the motor is .5HP @ 460vac.

Sorry about the rambling, lot going thru my mind with new job and everything. Thanks to all that reply.
 
Hi Ron,

You can get a lot information from the ODVA Product Catalog. What I am holding is a 2001 edition. I believe your Rockwell rep. should be able to give you a copy.

The catalogue I have mention other than Rockwell 1787-/DNPS you can use
1. Model 3520 from Control Technology INC. (CTI)
Phone 865 584-0440 FAX: 865 584-5720
2. Omron have a wider range of products ranging from 0.13A to 10A
Phone 800 55-OMRON FAX: 847 843-7787
3. Sola Hevi-Duty also have a wide selection
Phone: 1800 377-4384 Fax:1800 367-4384
4. Weidmuller also have a wide range
Phone: 1800 849-9343 Fax:1804 379-2593
For Devicenet cable you have to choose from Thick,thin or flat cable from Belden, C&M, CommScope, Lumberg, Madison Cable Corporation, Olflex Wire and Cable Co, Showa Electric Wire & Cable Co .... these are some of the manufacturers.

For DeviceNet configuration you need the RSNetWorx software from Rockwell Automation.

Hope this is of some help to you
 
Well, you bit off a pretty thick chunk of challenge here.

I had a Toshiba rep claim that their dual-drive interface wasn't meant to work with DeviceNet EDS-based parameter editors like RSNetworx for DeviceNet. I never got to try it myself. Nothing looks overtly wrong with the EDS.

Probably you can use Toshiba software to set up the Toshiba drive.

I know that RSNetworx won't set up non-AB scanners. You're on your own with Horner's controller. My experience with Horner has been so far disappointing.

I am a big fan of the SOLA SDN series of power supplies. The SDN4 and SDN8 especially have passed the ODVA test for stability and rise time.

Woodhead Connectivity, Lumberg, and Rockwell are the main suppliers of cordsets and cable. I use a lot of the A-B "DeviceBox" units because their spring-clamp connections save me a lot of jumpers and terminal blocks without sacrificing shield integrity like flat cable does.

The A-B Bulletin 160 drive is just a regular old V/Hz drive. It's not suitable for tight speed control. I'm not a big fan of trying to do positioning with AC drives instead of servomotors, but I don't know what kind of precision and repeatability you need.
 
The project is using the Toshiba G7 4015, its not a tight application. The machine shapes steel rod, it has 8 stands, 7 can move. They move to position during setup. Its a once a week or less move. The positioning I dont think is that critical, now its done by hand and there are no "marks" to state position so I assume they measure the position.

Ken can you explain about the 160 more, the ab site offers the 160 as a vector controller. If its V/hz then that isnt vector or do I have my facts misinterpreted?

I appreciate the devicenet info, its much needed.
 
ok, i´ll try to answer with what i know.

i´m implementing a proyect now, with 10 siemens inverters (micromaster 440) with dn module, and i´m using an omron plc (cj1m) for control.

i was concerned at the beginning for the control implementation, but with this plc and inverters the thing was very simple. you just configure the inverters for a position in the net, and then you start reading the information from the plc. the dn modules from both makes all the job, you just get the info.

you must remember that each word you send from the inverter use a position in the dn. so, each of my inverters send 4 words, 2 status words and 2 data words, so, i configure the inverter in node 1, and it uses 4 nodes (1,2,3 and 4). the same number of nodes are for sending the info to the inverters.

with the siemens inverters, all the things that comes or goes are configurables. i don´t know toshibas´ but i will think it is posible that this are configurable too. if not, well it is more simple, you just get what the inverter sends, and you send what the inverter requier.

you must configure first the inverters manually, specially the node numbers, so you can later connect with them. i don´t know toshibas (i said it again) but, if they can be configured via dn, it is not trought the normal data sending, but, via direct package (or something like that) in my case, i did the configuration manually (ok, via computer i wrote the configuration into the inverters), and then use only the control words via dn.

you don´t really need the eds file. you use a dn configuration program, only to indicate and save in the plc the items it have, and when you know the items you have, it can make a loop only with the used nodes, and in less time. other advantage is that you know when one node is not more there, because the plc will know that.

(in my case, the words that can be send with the inverters are 100% configurable (4 words minimum up to 10 words) so, my eds file only says that i can comunicate with 4 words).

the thing is, that wiht the dn configuration soft, you scan the dn net, and will know not the parameters, but how many words need each device (with omron was like that).

for what i know, all the registered eds are in odva.org, and the best and most complete list in dn devices is in odva.org (its a fact). so if you have allready been there, you just need to read a bit more.

and yes, you need for dn a 24V power supply. better when it is only for the net.

and for vector control, i don´t remember quite well, but you can have open loop vector control, the close loop we can say it´s an optional that gives a very good position control.

you have allready an answer for the cable, and one thing: devicenet doesn´t work if you don´t use the dn cable. (that is a fact too). the cable is ugly, but if you don´t use it, say good bye to the net. (specially if you are trying to use it in 250 o 500 kb).

ok, i hope this can help you. if you got more concrete questions, you can write me directly.

sapoleon
 
Ken hit the nail on the head, I bit off a big chunk of challenge.

The Toshiba's uses basically the same thing 4 in 4 out total of 8 but I dont see how they can do positioning. There doesnt seem to be any positioning controls in the inverter and no way to transfer the encoder data to the plc...the out seems to be high and low bit of frequency...ie you have to put the numbers together than divide by 100 to get your speed.

They sure dont give you alot of info concerning some drives and devicenet.

The PE isnt wanting to mount the encoder directly on the motor either, I can't see how this will work either. The drive uses the encoder as feedback for speed, he wants to mount it on one shaft of a dual shaft gearbox.

I spent several hours looking at what I have so far and I havent gotten very far, I dont think it will work the way he expected to do it.

I did come up with a way but it requires the encoder to goto the plc and the plc, not the inverter, handle the positioning. A plc is being used in the system so it shouldnt be that big of a deal.

I will know more soon, I am curious to see what happens.
 
Hi Ron. The advertising for the 160 drive says "sensorless vector performance" but it is only a V/Hz drive. A bit of creative advertising there. The powerflex 40 (not the 4) will give you sensorless vector control and I am sure that even with DNet it will be under $750 US. The in and out you are referring to are called assemblies. There is as far as I know a standard list of them, ie the default is 20 and 70. (also 21, 71 100, 101) If you look them up (20,70)the first 2 bytes will be status or command and the second 2 bytes will be speed reference or actual speed. You can tell the drive what assembly to use for input and output or you can make your own. (Well with AB you can) Download the AB160DN2 manual (its the dnet adaptor for the 160 drive) and have a read. It will make a bit more sense and since it is to the ODVA standard a lot should be common to the Toshiba. Regards Alan
 

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