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Old January 30th, 2020, 07:02 AM   #1
peter764
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RSLOGIX 5000 And ADC

We just converted a PLC 5 to RSLogix version 32. We also replaced the older drives with Powerflex 525. My question: How does the ADC work? I mean is it worth turning this option on for the drives? I was told back in version 20 that it didn't work very well? I would like your feedback on if you use it and how well it works at your factory. Thank You
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Old January 30th, 2020, 07:47 AM   #2
jstolaruk
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I always enable it. I don't recall hearing it didn't work in version 20, I used it then also. When I have had to replace a drive (rare) I don't recall any problems.

(I recall using it successfully with DeviceNet also)
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Old January 30th, 2020, 03:34 PM   #3
Phrog30
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Just remember, there are two parts of ADC, parameters and firmware. Checking the box doesn't do both. From memory you have to set each module to exact match and then save/flash to memory, which requires program mode.

It works well, a nice feature.
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Old January 30th, 2020, 07:47 PM   #4
rupej
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It works fine, but there are a few gotchas.

To save the firmware and parameters, you have to put the processor in program mode and navigate to the memory tab to manually save everything. So if there are any changes made after the fact, it becomes very difficult to capture them. And realistically, I don't think most plants will remember (or be able to shut down) to do this.

Also, ADC overwrites any changes you make to drive parameters. So you can't change anything once you've set it. I'm sure there are workarounds but I've not explored that.

Last edited by rupej; January 30th, 2020 at 07:54 PM.
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Old January 30th, 2020, 07:53 PM   #5
Phrog30
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Parameters will save without putting in program mode, firmware will not.
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Old January 30th, 2020, 07:55 PM   #6
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Good to know. You still have to manually save them though, right?
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Old January 30th, 2020, 08:01 PM   #7
Phrog30
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As far as I know they are saved automatically. But I’m not 100%. I’m not the best to answer on that, sorry.
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Old January 30th, 2020, 09:29 PM   #8
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The method that I use was to be sure to change a parameter through the AOP and then to save (ctrl-s) the project. If I didn't use the AOP for a parameter change, I seem to remember it didn't work all of the time.
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Old January 30th, 2020, 10:06 PM   #9
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If you change a parameter by pressing buttons on the drive itself, the changes will be overwritten the next time the drive is power cycled.

If you change a parameter using the interface within Logix Designer, that becomes the new ADC parameter and is saved automatically.

I've used ADC a couple of times now on v32 and it's been quite painless. As mentioned, the firmware side of it is a little bit particular and can be time consuming to set up initially, but that's an optional component of ADC and the software is pretty good about telling you what you've missed. e.g. you get a "you must set this parameter to this value on this deviceto use this feature" type of message, not just an "Error! Incorrect parameter on device!" type of message.
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Old January 31st, 2020, 09:10 AM   #10
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Technically, it's the cycling of the I/O connection to the drive that prompts Firmware Flash Supervisor (FFS) and Automatic Device configuration (ADC) into action. While that probably most often happens by folks power cycling the drives, I just want to point that detail out. You could leave a drive powered ON and just plug out and back the Ethernet cable. Either way, once the I/O connection is restored, a correlation check is performed. First, the firmware revision in the drive must match with the revision stored in the controller. If it does, then ADC will check that the configuration parameters in the drive match with the set in the controller. If different, ADC will download the configuration parameters. If they match, then ADC will do nothing.

Note: ADC will not work if first the firmware revisions do no match. FFS does not have to be enabled for the firmware check to be made for ADC. This firmware check is independent of the FFS feature and always precedes the ADC check.

If ADC is configured, but FFS is not, and you provision a replacement drive at a different firmware revision to the original drive, then ADC cannot download the configuration parameters to the drive. You must either manually flash the drive to the original firmware revision, or update the firmware revision for the drive Module Definition, and stored firmware files, in the offline project, and then download the update to the controller.

This scenario, although using ADC, does not "deskill" the task of replacing a drive.

So I would say that configuring "ADC only" is useful in having a method of always restoring an intended configuration parameter set to an "existing" drive in a project (or new with same firmware), when it is power or comms cycled. I would call this "Automatic Existing Device Configuration" (AEDC).

While FFS is optional. I would also say that in order to also use ADC to provision an unknown replacement drive in a "deskilled" manner, where quite often a different or newer firmware revision is present, then I would say that FFS is required. I would call this "Automatic New Device Configuration" (ANDC).

If it is always the intention to manually flash drives to the required firmware revision before storing them as spares or just before provisioning them as a replacement, then leaving FFS disabled should be fine, though.

One gotcha to FFS/ADC could be the drive replacement happens many years after the original was installed, and an older firmware revision backflash might not be supported on the newer hardware drive. Updating the project might be the best or only option here. This though, can sometimes also create another gotcha. The AOP version in the original project might be too old to provide support for the newer firmware revision drive. An updated version of the AOP may also have to be downloaded and installed.

Also, firmware upgrades tend to fix anomalies and bugs. So always forcing a new replacement drive to be backflashed to work with an older project configuration is not ideal.

This feature is useful, but not perfect. There are trade-offs.

As a PowerFlex 525 is mentioned here, I do remember this specific anomaly which is directly related to the topic of the thread. Albeit a few revisions back, it is one example of a situation where FFS/ADC would not have worked under certain circumstances...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark
...There was, and I suppose still might be for some, a specific anomaly that exists when using ADC with PowerFlex 525 drives at firmware revision 3.001:-

Since the beginning (don't be frightened, I'll make this quick!...), at firmware revision 1.xxx, and for subsequent firmware revisions, there has existed a Parameter Group called "AppView". Within this Group existed Groups G1-G9. Incidentally, these are used to create user-defined groups of parameters which can then be selected for display under the CustomView Parameter Group ("GC+++" you might often see when scrolling on display?). However, only Groups G1-G8 were used from the outset and Group G9 was unused and so was reserved for future use. But, it was decided before releasing firmware revision 3.001, that AppView Group G9 would no longer be required and so (maybe they needed the memory space for something else?) they decided to remove it. Because firmware revisions 1.xxx and 2.xxx include G9, and r3.001 does not, this created a firmware incompatibility. Because of this incompatibility, ADC will fail for a replacement revision 3.001 drive where the original drive was r1.xxx or r2.xxx.

Firmware revision 4.001 corrected this anomaly i.e. a newly provisioned r4.001, or later, drive will work with ADC that was originally configured for a r1.xxx or r2.xxx drive.

However, r3.001 is likewise not compatible with r4.001.

Pulling all that together, what, essentially, am I saying?...

If you setup ADC on a r1.xxx drive and replace it with a r1.xxx or r2.xxx drive - ADC will work

If you setup ADC on a r2.xxx drive and replace it with a r1.xxx or r2.xxx drive - ADC will work

If you setup ADC on a r1.xxx or r2.xxx drive and replace it with a r3.001 drive - ADC will fail

If you setup ADC on a r3.001 drive and replace it with a r1.xxx or r2.xxx drive - ADC will fail

If you setup ADC on a r3.001 drive and replace it with a r3.001 drive - ADC will work

If you setup ADC on a r3.xxx drive and replace it with a r4.xxx or later drive - ADC will fail

If you setup ADC on a r4.xxx or later drive and replace it with a r3.xxx drive - ADC will fail

If you setup ADC on a r4.xxx or later drive and replace it with a r4.xxx or later drive - ADC will work

ADC users, that may either be going to purchase or already have spare PowerFlex 525 drives, would be best advised to check whether any of them are firmware revision 3.001, and if so, would they be incompatible with the current ADC configured drives. Of course, most newly purchased stock should be at the latest revision, but there may be older units sitting on supplier's shelves not yet sold. Unless specified by the customer, not all Vendors ensure that purchased equipment is bang up-to-date before shipping out. Then there is always the aftermarket stock to consider.

If users do find they have revision 3.001 drives, and they are of concern to them, then they could consider:-

1. Flashing them to the required application firmware revision

2. Flashing them to a non r3.001 firmware revision

3. Flashing them to the latest firmware revision

Of course, this does defeat the purpose of using ADC in the first place. But, this is an "anomaly", after all, and so unfortunately for some, they may have to mitigate this firmware bump. There are a few definitions out there for an "anomaly", but I do like this one the best...

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.vocabulary.com
An anomaly is an abnormality, a blip on the screen of life that doesn’t fit with the rest of the pattern...If you are an Olympian who comes from a family of bookish types who all find it strenuous to walk the dog, you are an anomaly...
You haven't seen my dog!...
I wasn't going to paste that last part in, but I found it even funnier this time round. We now have several big dogs to walk!

Regards,
George
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Last edited by Geospark; January 31st, 2020 at 09:12 AM.
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Old January 31st, 2020, 11:56 AM   #11
peter764
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Thanks Everyone. I appreciate the information.
I didn't expect so much information. Again, thank you all who responded.
Thank You Geo for the huge amount of info.

Last edited by peter764; January 31st, 2020 at 12:04 PM.
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Old February 2nd, 2020, 04:27 PM   #12
ASF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark View Post
Technically, it's the cycling of the I/O connection to the drive that prompts Firmware Flash Supervisor (FFS) and Automatic Device configuration (ADC) into action. While that probably most often happens by folks power cycling the drives, I just want to point that detail out. You could leave a drive powered ON and just plug out and back the Ethernet cable. Either way, once the I/O connection is restored, a correlation check is performed.
Thanks George, I've learned something new today!
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Old February 3rd, 2020, 06:56 AM   #13
Geospark
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You are both welcome.

I just realized that I did not add a link to a technote in my last post. This one steps you through the process of setting both features up from scratch...

970094 - PowerFlex Drives: Effective use of FFS with ADC to minimize drive replacement time
Access Level: Everyone, Tech Communities

(Interesting...I don't know what "Tech Communities" in the Access Level refers to? I think the Forum should qualify!?!)

Just to confirm, I notice in there they do mention plugging the Ethernet cable out and back after a few seconds so as to test ADC after a parameter was changed.

Regards,
George
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