Siemens "Help with protecting my project"

Big_Robo

Member
Join Date
Nov 2016
Location
England
Posts
81
Hi, I am currently developing a project and need to know if it's possible that once I download to CPU and HMI no one can upload it and re use the program elsewhere.

I know about protecting blocks with Know How but I don't know if that will do it.

If possible what do I need to do. I'm still new to Tia Portal.

CPU is S7-1200, HMI KPT400

Thank You.
 
Last edited:
As far as I know, it is not possible to download editable files FROM the HMI.



PLC side, make sure you set password in the CPU as well as the know how protection.
 
this is a grey area


if your a company making lots of same product and sell it i can see why u would do this but i would expect some legal paperwork to prohibit the customer doing that


if you are developing for a paying cutomer i would considr that customer owns that developed code


Lock mechanisms exis but use carefully and make sure the paying customer is aware


I would not purchase locked software if i was purchasing equipment, would would accept legal documents saying i would not start cloning the equipment
 
this is a grey area


if your a company making lots of same product and sell it i can see why u would do this but i would expect some legal paperwork to prohibit the customer doing that


if you are developing for a paying cutomer i would considr that customer owns that developed code


Lock mechanisms exis but use carefully and make sure the paying customer is aware


I would not purchase locked software if i was purchasing equipment, would would accept legal documents saying i would not start cloning the equipment

Yeah it's a grey area, I will be making a bespoke piece of equipment which when sold I don't want anyone to look into or clone without my permission.
 
Yeah it's a grey area, I will be making a bespoke piece of equipment which when sold I don't want anyone to look into or clone without my permission.

Bespoke and closed or locked source would be enough for me to cancel that project.

I certainly understand your point of view, but being bespoke means that there isn't anything like this anywhere and bugs or poorly defined functionality are bound to happen and you'll have to be called at whatever rates you decide to sort it. That is a huge no-no...

There's also the problem that you may retire, die or win the lottery and exile yourself in sunnier climates and the company will have to pay for someone else to write the functionality.
 
Be very careful locking everyone out. Bespoke or not.
By bespoke I suppose you mean a 'one off'

There is nothing in your code that cant be replicated - you won't have written unique code that's never been done before.

I once wrote a bespoke program for a customer for a machine they were making.
The machine began to sell and I supplied plc's with the program already in it.
They soon realised they could cut me out of the equation by buying the software and leads and doing it themselves.

Ah, I got paid every time so they owned the code.

If they are buying this machine from you - they own everything, including the program.
You will have been paid for your work - so move on.
 
I just remembered that there is perhaps one situation where you'd be wise and probably forced to lock the code, which would be for equipment to harm if worked on by not competent parties like a crane, for example.
However, your concern is not safety but protection of the code, so it doesn't apply.
 
Protecting the PLC code

I would say big NO too.

I will tell about our experience.

A year ago we received a machine that our company used to pay the full cost of.
The machine vendor has hired a guy to write them the program, the guy was present at our facility for the shake down & commissioning of the machine.

Soon that guy finished his job & handed the machine to us we began to suffer where the machine resets it's working cycle at a fixed intervals (about every two hours).

We tried to access the CPU to fix the problem , but we found it password locked, we contacted the guy who programmed the machine, his reply was that he owe the vendor some money, we told him that we payed the vendor the full price, he refused to release the password.

At last our company was forced to pay the guy the money although we payed the full price before.
 
Be very careful locking everyone out. Bespoke or not.
By bespoke I suppose you mean a 'one off'

There is nothing in your code that cant be replicated - you won't have written unique code that's never been done before.

I once wrote a bespoke program for a customer for a machine they were making.
The machine began to sell and I supplied plc's with the program already in it.
They soon realised they could cut me out of the equation by buying the software and leads and doing it themselves.

Ah, I got paid every time so they owned the code.

If they are buying this machine from you - they own everything, including the program.
You will have been paid for your work - so move on.

Yeah it annoys me when a customer has paid to have a system designed and programmed then certain companies lock the DFB's or PLC quoting protection of Intellectual Property, highly unlikely to be anything in there that requires protection of IP and if it did the company that owns the kit should have it as its their design in the first place.
 
We lock some of our FBs.

However they have been unscrupulously tested, an give out good diagnostics if anything should go wrong.

The rest of the code is open, so they are in effect just used as a little black box to generate some functions.
 
I acutally make it a point to tell my customers that they own the the code we write for them. Sure they could go elsewhere but the trick is to give good service so they don't have too. Not one of my customers would accept anything they were locked out of.
 
Both KTP and S7 can be back-up and copied. You can lock it so it can't be changed, but you cannot lock it so it can't be cloned.
 
Not only do we tell our customers they own their program we write for them, but after warranty anything about the program is now a service call. So if the electricians or the techs have messed up some stuff in logic and I have to fix it, then it's an expensive service call. Detroit to South Carolina or Seattle is not considered local. I wish more customers would let the integrators use a VPN link.
 
Both KTP and S7 can be back-up and copied. You can lock it so it can't be changed, but you cannot lock it so it can't be cloned.

At least in the 1500's, the PLC code can be locked to the serial number of either the PLC or the memory card. Not sure if the 1200's support the same feature.

Nothing to prevent it in the HMI though.
 

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