Siemens frustration...

Hi all,

I've been using Siemens equipment (300s, 1200s and HMIs) for around 2 years now and I seem to be getting increasingly frustrated with the "simple" things which are not possible or only possible on the more expensive versions.

The most recent was trying to change the date format on a basic HMI panel to DD/MM/YYYY. After looking around for ages refusing to contact tech support over something so trivial I gave in and got this response...

Unfortunately, you can only change the date to UK format in Comfort Panels, this option is not available in HMI Basic Panels.
The procedure you have mentioned is correct however, it will only work in Comfort Panels

There is also the ridiculously small retentive memory on S7-1200s, memory storage is pennies now and yet it doesn't have enough to store 4 arrays of 100 values.

There is no option to view the contents of the data logs on a S7-1200PLC other than the web viewer and download as a .csv - there is no basic element for WinCC which will interrogate the logs on the HMI.

Can someone please tell me if i'm being unfair to Siemens or do others share the same frustrations?

Rant over.

I think if you are only using the S7-1200 as the comparison tool then yes, your being unfair to Siemens. The 1200 compares closely to the Micro820 in AB world and has its definite useful purposes, however most would rather stab it with a fork than try to program one. That doesn't turn off of the rest of the AB line up though.
I purchased an S7-1200 a while back with TIA portal V12 or 13, cant remember now. I thought it was a pretty power full little unit.
Perhaps the requirements of the job would warrant the next model up.

Just a thought!

The date display format, if that is a great concern for you then you are lucky.

That other ting is not "a simple thing" you are requesting of an S7-1200 with a basic panel.
You want to use the PLC as a logging device for a relatively large amount of data, and it must be kept retentively, and the panel must be able to browse the data. Are you using the S7-1200 as a kind of RTU ?

I am thinking that the IM151-8 (for STEP7 Classic) and S7-1510SP (*) (for when you use STEP7 in TIA) are so inexpensive that there is little incentive to go for S7-1200, except for the very smallest applications.
Also, the Basic Panels are just that, inexpensive but good enough for the most simple need.
And, IMO the ability to use the webserver (for diagnostics, for seing some VATs, for seeing logfiles, etc.) is a bonus feature that you could not have dreamt of just 10 years ago.

*: In the S7-1500 series you get a lot more memory and a lot more retentive memory.

DLMUK said:

Hi all,

I've been using Siemens equipment (300s, 1200s and HMIs) for around 2 years now and I seem to be getting increasingly frustrated with the "simple" things which are not possible or only possible on the more expensive versions.

The most recent was trying to change the date format on a basic HMI panel to DD/MM/YYYY. After looking around for ages refusing to contact tech support over something so trivial I gave in and got this response...

Unfortunately, you can only change the date to UK format in Comfort Panels, this option is not available in HMI Basic Panels.
The procedure you have mentioned is correct however, it will only work in Comfort Panels

There is also the ridiculously small retentive memory on S7-1200s, memory storage is pennies now and yet it doesn't have enough to store 4 arrays of 100 values.

There is no option to view the contents of the data logs on a S7-1200PLC other than the web viewer and download as a .csv - there is no basic element for WinCC which will interrogate the logs on the HMI.

Can someone please tell me if i'm being unfair to Siemens or do others share the same frustrations?

Rant over.

Click to expand...

You can read date form PLC to different variables and order variables on panel to suit to application (PLC clock is usually more accurate also than panel date)

Are you using marker bbits and bytes for retentive data?
Why not to use DB-blocks which are retentive

I have a similar annoyance with Siemens and PCS7 running on their servers and S7-400 CPU's.
I wasted two days understanding why I couldn't get my project display the menu when I had everything set up as per the getting started guidelines.
Eventually someone in the Siemens support forum highlighted that I can only have the five supported languages included in my project. If for some reason the English(UK) is included, part of the software stops working.

It seems that we now have a thread for "general complaints for evenything Siemens from S7-1200 to PCS7".

JesperMP said:

It seems that we now have a thread for "general complaints for evenything Siemens from S7-1200 to PCS7".

Click to expand...

Could turn out to be my favorite thread

In answer to some of the comments.

My customer wants to view the records of the data logs on the HMI, as this cannot be done I replicated the contents of the logs through code and stored in a DB as the following:

Array of Real 0-99
Array of String 0-99
Array of Date 0-99
Array of Time 0-99

However this was too much retentive data for the controller (270% to be precise). This is also why the date format is important to me.

Oh well, I do understand the 1200 is an entry level PLC but some aspects of it are so powerful for the price and yet other really simple things are not.

DLMUK said:

Can someone please tell me if i'm being unfair to Siemens or do others share the same frustrations?

Click to expand...

I think the PLC data logging is just a half done feature in general. The data logging is identical in the 1500 family. It does a fine job of recording the data, but you can't actually DO much with it. There's no point of having data if you can't use it. The HMIs have their own (much slower) data logging that they can actually display on trends and things like that.

Regarding the retentive memory, if you don't specify the length of your strings, then I think it defaults to 256 length. This builds up fast (and ends up at about 270%, like you said). Unless you really need strings that long, shrink it to something like a string[50], and you'll free up a ton of space. I think you can do up to around a string[90] in the array and still be OK with your other arrays.

For the basic panels... yeah. The localization features (like date/time display) are tied to the language, I think. Unfortunately, English (UK) appears differently in the ES and on the runtime, at least on my panel. Try switching your project over to German. It should be DD.MM.YYYY, which might be closer? If that doesn't match what you want, maybe one of the other formats is closer. Switching the runtime language to German doesn't appear to change the control panel/settings area.

Most limitations are just put in there by purpose for different pricing, so they're easy to understand and accept given that background. Imagine the engineering effort put in to reduce the capability... That's worth respect

DLMUK said:

There is also the ridiculously small retentive memory on S7-1200s, memory storage is pennies now and yet it doesn't have enough to store 4 arrays of 100 values.
...
Can someone please tell me if i'm being unfair to Siemens or do others share the same frustrations?

Rant over.

Click to expand...

It's not unfair, nor fair. It's just about money.

Q: How much does a car dealer charge to add intermittent wipers to a new car?
A: As much as they can in a package upgrade.


The big5 (Siemens, Schneider, Rockwell, Mitsubishi, Omron) each have different levels of PLCs and HMIs.
They do that for marketing and maximum $$. The best features are top dollar units that they charge more for.
To prevent price erosion, they offer less features for a smaller price.


The only way to fix that is to either:
- spend more $$
- find a different vendor

spaderkung said:

Imagine the engineering effort put in to reduce the capability... That's worth respect

Click to expand...

aah, that's good!
I had to wipe away the tears of laughter when I read that.

spaderkung said:

Most limitations are just put in there by purpose for different pricing, so they're easy to understand and accept given that background. Imagine the engineering effort put in to reduce the capability... That's worth respect

Click to expand...

They will sell you a Profinet credit card reader eventually...

I've been working with AB plcs for a long time and just recently started working with Siemens products, I fear that I annoy my co-workers with all that moaning and giggling that is heard from behind my monitor when I realize that the things that could be a simple 3 liner can turn into a major hassle when Siemens comes into play...