Productivity/Codesys: I started a revolt on AD's Forum

I had a conversation a while back with the Product Manager of the Productivity PLC I was asking for a CPU for the Productivity 1000 Series that was programmable with Codesys 3.5. He basically told me that was a dumb idea and one would want that.

I was feeling rebellious today so I started a thread.

If you think this sounds like a good idea. Go here and tell them.

https://community.automationdirect....AR/poll-codesys-plc-with-productivity-1000-io

I like your comment about the CX7000, I pretty much moved on and gave up on it ever being released.

I guess I am the only one that wants a Low Cost Codesys PLC.

M241 is a low cost Codesys PLC but probably not as low as Productivity series but Codesys licence will also add some cost.
As technology in automation sector makes huge advances lately software will play much more important role than hardware and supporting Codesys will be huge advantage for PLC manufacturers.
You can do things with Codesys that you can't do on other platforms. Just one look at Codesys store is enough to understand how powerful and flexible Codesys is.
Also Raspberry Pi's Soc is much more powerful than most PLCs on the market so it can run pretty much everything.

kallileo said:

Also Raspberry Pi's Soc is much more powerful than most PLCs on the market so it can run pretty much everything.

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Actually worth noting, I got an email from Codesys this week explaining that they now have two raspberry pi runtimes in the store. One for play that should not be used in industrial environments and one (double-ish the price) that is to be used with Raspberry pi's in industrial environments.

This is likely a boon for stuff like revolutionPi (or something like that) where the hardware has been looked at and toughened up for industry but many wouldn't want to use it as a Codesys controller due to the software being specifically not for industry.

I've come across some platforms that use codesys as "their" software, I have yet to label one of them as "average". For me a s7-1200 and TIA portal is cheap and the TIA portal is far supperior to any codesys platform i've used

@cardosocea
I got this email too.
What the say is that the single core version shouldn't be used in industrial machinery and the multi core runtime is better suited for this.

I think the problem with revolutionPi isn't the Codesys Runtime but Raspbian not being a real time OS. The offer some kind of real time patch for this reason.

On the software side, the Revolution Pi has a specially adapted Raspbian operating system, which is equipped with a real-time patch.
https://revolution.kunbus.com/revolution-pi-series/

rQx said:

I've come across some platforms that use codesys as "their" software, I have yet to label one of them as "average". For me a s7-1200 and TIA portal is cheap and the TIA portal is far supperior to any codesys platform i've used

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I just did my first project using TIA and S7-1200 and Basic HMI. It's not bad at all (still bloated) especially if you use Ladder as your first choice as PLC programming language which more intuitive than the Ladder in Codesys. I chose S7-1200 for this particular project only because I use ST exclusively and I wanted see to whether I can still program in Ladder. It's seems that I can but I don't enjoy it.
While S7-1200 is good, Siemens Basic HMI is really overpriced garbage so I decided to replace it with a similar Exor HMI.

I think Codesys wasn't designed for typical PLC programmers that use Ladder logic, it reminds me more of some kind of IDE oriented for embedded software engineers who develop applications for microcontrollers and prefer text language coding rather than graphical presentation like Ladder.

S7-1200 and Tia basic are cheap but Schneider M241/251 PLCs are as cheap, have more embedded I/O, better connectivity options and the I/O modules are way cheaper than Siemens S7-1200.

The most annoying thing with S7-1200 is that if you want to update the PLC you must only use Siemens SD Cards which are pretty expensive.

kallileo said:

@cardosocea


The most annoying thing with S7-1200 is that if you want to update the PLC you must only use Siemens SD Cards which are pretty expensive.

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What do you mean by that, firmware of software? With newer versions, certainly current ones, all can be done with software either TIA Portal or Simatic Automation Tool.

I think it is not a dumb idea, especially to get other programming lnguages other than ladder, in particular structured text. It is also an advantage that you can exchange code between platforms.
But I think it is against Automation Directs business plan to be dependant on licenses from other software vendors. If you are the Ryan Air of PLCs, then you cut every cost that is not absolutely necessary, even if the cost brings advantages.

kallileo said:

M241 is a low cost Codesys PLC but probably not as low as Productivity series but Codesys licence will also add some cost.
As technology in automation sector makes huge advances lately software will play much more important role than hardware and supporting Codesys will be huge advantage for PLC manufacturers.
You can do things with Codesys that you can't do on other platforms. Just one look at Codesys store is enough to understand how powerful and flexible Codesys is.
Also Raspberry Pi's Soc is much more powerful than most PLCs on the market so it can run pretty much everything.

Click to expand...

I think there's different views on what a PLC "should" do or what it is designed to do. I got the impression from reading and engaging in a couple of discussions that the initial purpose of a PLC was not to be fast but to be sequential and "slow". I think to minimize potential for errors.



From this article :


Morley had a pretty clear picture of what he wanted this programmable controller to look like:
• No interrupts for processing
• Direct mapping into memory
• No software handling of the repetitious chores
• Slow (a mistake which Morley later realized)
• A rugged design that really worked
• Language (ladder logic came a few months later)


I believe it was drbitboy (I think that's the name) who expressed his dis-satisfaction with how Siemens timers work and that he expected them to update in a traditional way (my words) sort of buffered, while I wanted timer data as real time as possible and it's up to me to use it "cautiously".


I don't get why No interrupts for processing, not sure what he meant by that.

kalabdel said:

What do you mean by that, firmware of software? With newer versions, certainly current ones, all can be done with software either TIA Portal or Simatic Automation Tool.

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The panel is for a small batch pasteurizer that will be shipped and installed on a small farm somewhere New Zealand. Probably some local electrician will make the installation.
So I'm not sure that the end user or the electrician know how to use a PC let alone TIA portal.
This is why an easy software update method is necessary in order to fix a bug or add a new feature.


50 years since the creation of the first PLC, nowadays they are required to run real time PLC logic but also be MQTT publisher/subscriber, OPC server, mail client, communicate with with other devices using multiple Ethernet and fieldbus protocols at the same time and many. So they are no just PLCs anymore but computers with real time operating systems.

rQx said:

I've come across some platforms that use codesys as "their" software, I have yet to label one of them as "average". For me a s7-1200 and TIA portal is cheap and the TIA portal is far supperior to any codesys platform i've used

Click to expand...

The biggest draw back of S7-TIA is that it doesnt support CFC, unlike Codesys.

ojz0r said:

The biggest draw back of S7-TIA is that it doesnt support CFC, unlike Codesys.

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CFC is coming with TIA V17, slated to be released Q2 2021.
But honestly, CFC with an S7-1200 or an AD PLC !?

kallileo said:

The panel is for a small batch pasteurizer that will be shipped and installed on a small farm somewhere New Zealand. Probably some local electrician will make the installation.
So I'm not sure that the end user or the electrician know how to use a PC let alone TIA portal.
This is why an easy software update method is necessary in order to fix a bug or add a new feature.

Click to expand...

How do you handle that issue with CodeSys compatible PLCs?

Well guys if you would like to see a Codesys Automation direct PLC. GO TO the AD thread and voice your support.
Sure isn't going to happen if they see no interest