Consultation fees?

I have been working for a few years doing programming and controls for a couple different companies, on staff as one would say. Recently, an industry contact friend of mine sent me an e-mail saying he had a client that would be needing some HMI programming and creation, utilizing a platform that I have good experience with.
Basically he asked me to do the screens and setup for the stand-alone equipment HMI they are installing. I am definitely going to pursue this and was wondering....given the situation details.....What kind of compensation should I seek?

There have been some other possible similar opportunities that have popped up here and there and I am thinking I might go get a business license and create a legitimate "umbrella" for these occasional opportunities. I used to run a small business so that seems no big deal, but I am unsure how to navigate compensation and dealing....

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

The quick answer to your question is, "whatever the market will bear".

If you want to make a living doing work like this, then figure out what you need for a salary to maintain your standard of living and what kind overhead expenses your business will need to absorb. These include insurance, accountant/bookkeeping services, taxes, license fees, office rent, utilities, etc. Assuming a 40 - hour work week, there are approximately 2000 hours available per year. Set your hourly rate at a level so that you can run your business and pay yourself if you can bill half of those hours. That's because the other 1000 hours will be spent on tasks that you can't bill your customers for. Things like marketing, filling out monthly and quarterly tax forms, bookkeeping, writing and revising proposals, chasing deadbeats, fending off telemarketers.

If you value your family, don't plan on regularly working too many hours or spending excessive time on the road.

Finally, choose an hourly rate that reflects the work you do. My avatar is based on reality. Out of good, fast, and cheap, pick any two. If you want good work in a hurry, it'll cost you because I'll have to forego work for other paying customers to get your job done on your timetable. If you want good work cheap, don't expect it to be done quickly, because a job that pays better will have a higher priority than yours. If you want it fast and you want it cheap, don't expect it to be any good.

I also tell my customers that they're not simply buying an hour of my time. They're also buying 40 years of accumulated experience that allows me to get the job done in an hour.

Thanks for the insight.

It is important that I make clear that at this point, this "side work" is just that....side work. I have a full time job working for a manufacturer as an integrator, and the programming work I mentioned will be just additional work.

Important also is the fact that I have only a few years experience to draw on so that makes me "inexperienced" compared to established players. That said, the work I mentioned is on a system I have done a lot of development on, and the client will be getting a great finished product. In all honesty I'll be giving the client exactly what is needed, but not as quickly or efficiently as guys like the previous poster with 40 years of experience.

In this case I am thinking charging "by the hour" might be problematic....as opposed to charging a complete "fee" for the development and perhaps an hourly if I am needed to travel to the client (in another State) for Startup. The product is a straightforward HMI providing some basic operator controls for a relatively simple process with some data logging.

It is because of these considerations that I am asking for input. Frankly I am glad to be getting the opportunity, and I want to make a positive impression for the overall experience.....because there is the possibility of more work coming from the same contact if this were to work to their satisfaction. I think I would say my goal would be to establish a reputation for delivering good work at a reasonable expense.

I have a full time job working for a manufacturer as an integrator
That said, the work I mentioned is on a system I have done a lot of development on

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Was this work done as an emploeye of said intergrator?
That said maybe you could pass this job to your employer, you could gain respect,bonus,more knowdgle as to pricing this kind of work and maybe a step up where your at and not have the hassels of the book keeping insurance ect... just a thought!

bce123 said:

Was this work done as an emploeye of said intergrator?
That said maybe you could pass this job to your employer, you could gain respect,bonus,more knowdgle as to pricing this kind of work and maybe a step up where your at and not have the hassels of the book keeping insurance ect... just a thought!

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Yeah it's a good point here, in some case this kind of part time job can became a competition to the companie that pay you for the full time or at worst, i have heard about job taken out to home using employer tools...Even if employer would not got the job it can be seen like that and became a good reason to kick someone out.

If you want real dollars, my customer base has been willing to pay:

For Time & Material (T&M), I charge as low as $42 hour on CAD work at home for customers that pay timely and as high as $120 hour plus expenses for onsite commissioning that requires me to carry a $10M liability policy. I prefer quoting fixed price but often T&M covers those hours commissioning that I'm waiting on others. Ultimately it comes down to risk.

Not getting rich but I enjoy the work and most customers keep me busy but not so busy I can't sneak in a afternoon of golf.

Good points.

In my situation, I am basically the one guy(well one of two) that is doing automation upgrades and programming for a Food product manufacturer. It is a long standing company that does a lot of things still "the old fashioned way" due to the requirements of their product. A plant manager recognized the benefits of automating parts of their process, and so I was added into their maintenance strategy in a manner of speaking. End result was me getting immersed into freshly purchased and installed(by me) instrumentation and controls gear. I have had to implement these changes according to a strategy laid out by the maintenance manager(himself an integrator/electrician). It has been a blessing, as I came right out of school into this field, and I have been afforded the opportunity to learn these systems and apply them as I get up to speed.....tons of researching new equipment and the like.

As part of the job I have interacted with many reps and others in the industry and in this way have made the contact that offered me the programming "side job". My contact works for an engineering/OEM equipment sales rep kind of thing. They are putting together a package for a client that includes an HMI that will control a few stand alone things. Nobody on their staff programs...they spec and sell representing certain lines, to meet customers needs. The guy has seen some of my work and asked me if I would produce some screens and such for their client.

(full disclosure: The guy used to work for the company I work for....in fact he hired me...then moved on to this new position....so that is how he knows me and my capabilities. In addition, we work well together and that is important as many can attest)


Again thanks for the insights

(full disclosure: The guy used to work for the company I work for....in fact he hired me...then moved on to this new position....so that is how he knows me and my capabilities.

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Be very careful with this job. It could easily turn into a conflict-of-interest with your current employer. They will become aware of it sooner or later, so ask yourself upfront: will it be okay when they find out I am working on the same type of jobs on the side? You might even go ahead and work out an arrangement now, instead of waiting until the $hit hits the fan.

OK so you work as an integrator in a food plant and only work on their equipment.

If the other outfit is not in the same market or could be in same market then I see no problem with conflict of interest.

Some companies are a little twitchy about moonlighting which is what this comes down to. Before you start on this make sure you can do it on a weekend and make double sure there will be no phone calls at work.

Even so I would still talk with my supervisor about this.

Dan Bentler

Thanks for the insights.

There is no danger as far as current employer. Fact is, my supervisor has his own consulting business "on ice" ready to be thawed out if ever need be. He has actually pointed some outside work to me from others that have similar "temporary" job needs. The guy that wants me to do some side work for him actually stopped by the plant the other day, to check in on a big project I am part of that he originally planned.

As it stands right now I am really working long term kinda as a contractor for my current employer, due to several large new projects that they wanted to keep "in house", yet they didn't fully have the right skilled staff for. I was originally hired for a 6 month projected project, then as things went well and they developed more plans it has extended into a several year project(s) with me being asked to then help with upgrades at another plant they have. The original plant I worked at here had virtually no automation, and as I have brought more things online, the powers that be have seen the potential gains of upgrading other "manual" systems.....and now I find myself with project work for the next couple years or more. There has been some talk about potentially creating a permanent position for me, but as yet no deal.

I'm working on finishing a BS in software to go with my tech school certificate, hopefully adding that with my field experience will help in employment marketability and such(current employer has need in the IT area, and they are not sure about the integration needs long term so if I could "wear those two hats" there could be a permanent position made, I am told)

As for now I am extremely happy to be doing very interesting work at a challenging level while only being a few years out of school(starting a mid-life new career path as it were)

Fact is, my supervisor has his own consulting business "on ice" ready to be thawed out if ever need be. He has actually pointed some outside work to me from others that have similar "temporary" job needs. The guy that wants me to do some side work for him actually stopped by the plant the other day, to check in on a big project I am part of that he originally planned.

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The last time I went through this scenario, my supervisor was running a business on the side (clearly against the rules plainly stated in the employee manual). He kept asking me to do work at night for his sideline business. I told him I was afraid of getting into trouble. He would say "what could go wrong"? I never worked for him on the side. Eventually the company president found out about my supervisor's side job and fired his sorry butt, kicked him out the back door while threatening to sue him. Just because your supervisor encourages you to do this sideline business does not mean you will not get into trouble. Check the company rules carefully. Your supervisor has has own personal agenda, which may not be the best thing for YOUR personal future.

I have seen supervisors that encouraged certain employees to perform activities against the company rules, then later use those things to coerce or blackmail the employee into doing whatever the supervisor asked. Make sure your backside is covered by more than your immediate supervisor's fancy talk.

I'm working on finishing a BS in software to go with my tech school certificate, . . .

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You might want to sign up for a short course in Ethics, just to bone up on the general rules of expected behavior.

OK...point made.


The situation here is in no way or manner similar to your experiences Lancie. I have written too circumspectly, because you obviously have the wrong impression of my scenario. I tried to make clear that I am basically contracting with my employer (albeit for long term project), and they are happy because they have their cake and eat it too. They are getting good results and haven't had to go the full distance of creating a new position for their company and all that entails.
As far as my supervisor, he had his own consulting business that he shut down to take the nice stable position he has here. The company recently has had some unexpected situations arrive which highlighted the wisdom of hiring said supervisor. ...Um...he is not trying to talk me into anything or whatever. Actually I have learned much from him about professional corporate culture. You don't know him or me, and have the wrong impression.

That said....Any and all side work I perform will be on my time and my equipment. Everything is above board, and I am fortunate to be working with people of good integrity.

Lancie1 said:

You might want to sign up for a short course in Ethics, just to bone up on the general rules of expected behavior.

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.....really?.....Might you remind me what you know concerning my ethical stances?


There is nothing in the situation I originally posted about that is unethical.

KNeland, don't be too upset with the suggestions of conflict of interest. They are more trying to warn you about the pitfalls that some companies create for their employees who contract on the side and I don't think they were meaning anything sinister. Since you are a contractor and not an employee, you won't fall in the same traps that some of us have to navigate.

All that aside, did anyone give you any kind of clue to your original question?

I had wrestled with this as I have the same opportunity (except I am an employee and I have to navigate the conflict of interest rules here). After a few discussions with HR, I don't think I will have much problems, after I sign some paperwork. I just need to figure out if it is worth that hassle for a small job to help someone out.

brucechase said:

All that aside, did anyone give you any kind of clue to your original question?

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Bruce, thanks for the leveling point of view.

I definitely would like more insights as to compensation.
This "side work" I am looking at is really my first foray into "consultant" kind of work, and it is more important for me to do good work leaving a good impression for the client rather than trying to maximize profit. I'm interested in opening doors for future work, so need to price accordingly.

Thanks again to all for reading and replying to my questions.