Suggest PLC as Gift For Son

Ever owned or used a manufactured product? Drank water from a municipal supply? Thank a PLC programmer and a PLC. We literally rule the world.

To make a PLC fun, I would think it might be cool to automate a doggy door or patio door with some pneumatic actuators. Perhaps some air powered holiday puppets or something like that. How about a sprinkler system or garage door opener. Maybe all of those things in one controller.

Learning ladder logic, PLC hardware and electricity can enable a person to literally take control of some of the most important parts of the world.

OkiePC said:

To make a PLC fun, I would think it might be cool to automate a doggy door or patio door with some pneumatic actuators. Perhaps some air powered holiday puppets or something like that. How about a sprinkler system or garage door opener. Maybe all of those things in one controller.

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Or become a home brewer. It is literally limitless. Analog, discrete, adanvced functions, PID controls, HMI, remote monitoring, web control. I’ve got a 504 hooked up to a web server with AdavcedHMI as an HMI and web service for changing temperatures on the fly. If you don’t have access to old decommissioned hardware then, IMO Automation Direct is your only cost effective option, BUT raspie and Arduino are HUGE in the home brew automation trend. I’m about to pull the trigger on a mirco-controller, but I’ve always been on the “they are useless in the real world bandwagon”. I’ve always had the attitude of, they will never be an enterprise solution, so why bother. But I suppose as a hobby they are well fitted.

Here is couple of interesting links if you decide to go with codesys & Rpi. RPI with Beckhoff I/O cards:



http://www.instructables.com/id/Programming-Raspberry-Pi-With-CODESYS/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pQEQQqj1-A

Maxkling said:

I’m about to pull the trigger on a mirco-controller, but I’ve always been on the “they are useless in the real world bandwagon”. I’ve always had the attitude of, they will never be an enterprise solution, so why bother. But I suppose as a hobby they are well fitted.

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You are right, they are not good enough for industry, which is funny because there are people out there that made Arduinos look like PLC's and market them at the same price of a cheap PLC.

But as a hobby and to deploy around the house they are far better value than a PLC can be. Obviously there is quite a bit of a learning curve for someone that only reads ladder logic, but as a famous console game said "There is no knowledge that is not power.".

I am looking now to make a proof of concept with ESP8266 microcontroller as remote Wireless sensors and will try to put a Raspberry Pi receiving these values via Modbus or potentially UDP or TCP.

Maxkling said:

I’ve always been on the “they are useless in the real world bandwagon”. I’ve always had the attitude of, they will never be an enterprise solution, so why bother.

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cardosocea said:

You are right, they are not good enough for industry

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This is quite untrue.

Many small 'robots' are microcontroller based. Same for material mixers for injection molding. I've made RFID fixture identity systems and testers for window regulator motors, also microcontroller based.

If any of you have used IO-Link, EthernetIP, DeviceNet or HART, guess what... microcontrollers. After all, a prox by itself won't give any diagnostic information.

It's a lot more prevalent than you think. And, with the advent of IoT and IIot, it will become even more so.

So you guys are installing these at your customers sites and on machines? if I had someone sell me a machine with one of these they would not be getting paid and they could pick up there machine and take it back with them

Im all for being cheap but for the Love of GOD....

And saying AB is so expensive? you can get a L24er for 1k (ebay) and a Mini version of Logix 5000 (9324-RLD200ENE) 800.00 then build a trainer for well under 2k for something that they can build, add to, expand and that will be around for a long time, if this was my kid and they were serious about learning automation then thats what I would do

You can also use the free software and get a 1100 or 800 for under 300 bucks

Its good to learn the hardware side of the PLC's and different wiring ways... there are not many jobs that you can sit behind a desk and write code all day and I would not want to anyway so having the real thing and getting that lessons is worth a few extra bucks

I do agree with the fact.... learn everything you can no matter what it is, enjoy the automation world and take what it gives you

geniusintraining said:

So you guys are installing these at your customers sites and on machines? if I had someone sell me a machine with one of these they would not be getting paid and they could pick up there machine and take it back with them

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I'm an end user, so I get a bit more leeway. The robots and mixers I mentioned before are built that way by the manufacturer, and have been for many years. Again, I think you would be surprised at how much micro-controlled stuff there is out in the field.

Another use of a micro comes in when measurement and response times must be faster than what a PLC can do. Hence, the motor tester I mentioned.

And yes, sometimes price can be a factor as well, using the RFID system in my previous post as an example. At the time a dual-head RFID system, would have cost approx. $2500 US to implement. Designing my own put me at less than $150.

But, this is getting too far afield from the OP. My recommendation stands with LogixPro. See if the kid likes it well enough to do an actual build. If he doesn't care for it, you're only out 35 bucks.

JordanCClark said:

But, this is getting too far afield from the OP. My recommendation stands with LogixPro. See if the kid likes it well enough to do an actual build. If he doesn't care for it, you're only out 35 bucks.

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Ok, im with ya, but if the kid shows interest.... spend some money, you brought them into this world give them the best chance you can, they can get a lot better future from a PLC then a college degree, they will make more money, its cheaper, they will always be in demand, they can live just about anywhere in the world and.... they will not have to come back to live with you at the age of 35

geniusintraining said:

So you guys are installing these at your customers sites and on machines? if I had someone sell me a machine with one of these they would not be getting paid and they could pick up there machine and take it back with them

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In the EU there is the EC Declaration of Confomity (to standards). I believe there is a similar requirement over on your side. Becase of that, the Raspberry Pi et al, forget it in an industrial environment. For home use and learning, perfectly OK though.

As to the original topic, instead of bying something new, Raspberry Pi or PLC, how about reusing some old stuff in your company that is not being used anyway ?
It is not just the controller and programmng software, but also sensors, actuators, drives etc. that will be needed.

In my company, it is amazing how much stuff we keep that in reality will never be used, and we have never gotten around to getting rid of. Some of this stuff is amazing, PLC CPUs, IO cards, laser distance sensors, drives., encoders, load cells, real industrial stuff that blows the cheap stuff out of the water.
Your company will probably give it away or lend it out if you ask nicely.
You will have to spend some time to hook the stuff up in a safe manner, but it will make a big difference.
I cannot get my own sons interested in this, but if they were, that is what I would do.

JordanCClark said:

Many small 'robots' are microcontroller based. Same for material mixers for injection molding. I've made RFID fixture identity systems and testers for window regulator motors, also microcontroller based.

If any of you have used IO-Link, EthernetIP, DeviceNet or HART, guess what... microcontrollers. After all, a prox by itself won't give any diagnostic information.

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Yes, I meant Arduinos by themselves aren't good enough and certainly not when someone just makes adaptors to connect wires instead of proper protection for the inputs/outputs.

Microcontrollers are everywhere... even inside PLC's. So obviously someone can pick one up and create a part for industry. But that doesn't mean that an Arduino can be used willy nilly.

@geniusintraining,

I don't have 2k to spend on a smart relay and doubt very many people here do. Hell, if wiring is your concern, you could take the 800$ of Studio5000 and buy a second hand wago IO rack that is usable with Raspberry Pi and CodeSys...

cardosocea said:

@geniusintraining,

I don't have 2k to spend on a smart relay and doubt very many people here do. Hell, if wiring is your concern, you could take the 800$ of Studio5000 and buy a second hand wago IO rack that is usable with Raspberry Pi and CodeSys...

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Not sure if its this way in the EU but here, there are many companies and I mean a lot that if you dont know AB they will not even let you in the door for a interview, so spending the 800 is a very cheap investment for ROI its the best option, its not my case because I think thats one of the easiest PLC to learn but I learned with STL in S5's so anything after that was a nice change

geniusintraining said:

Not sure if its this way in the EU but here, there are many companies and I mean a lot that if you dont know AB they will not even let you in the door for a interview

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Super true in the midwest. AB is basically the only platform used for controls in most factories, though you see some Omron, Mitsubishi, and Seimens scattered about.

geniusintraining said:

Not sure if its this way in the EU but here, there are many companies and I mean a lot that if you dont know AB they will not even let you in the door for a interview, so spending the 800 is a very cheap investment for ROI its the best option, its not my case because I think thats one of the easiest PLC to learn but I learned with STL in S5's so anything after that was a nice change

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There are companies like that around the UK too... and if they are so hung up on Rockwell that cannot understand that knowledge on other platforms is definitely portable, then they're unnecessarily limiting themselves. Not only that, they're doing it to the most backwards company there is in the automation front (Rockwell not allowing the download of their software for trial without a license is, in my opinion, a sign they don't want people to know their platform).

But then again, would the people in these companies be satisfied that someone played with a PLC to hire them? It's one thing to have messed about with one, it's other to have done something a bit more complex. But if saying that you played with a Rockwell smart relay is enough to convince someone and get ahead then fine.

Most companies don't take your word for what experience you have anyway. I could walk into an interview and tell them I've programmed PLCs for a decade or that I've fudged around with one for 15 minutes. They are still going to ask me to write a program for them, and all they care about is how well I can do so.

Personally, I'd say it's probably not worth bickering over. We're all reading way too far into the couple sentences he actually wrote. OP hasn't been back to respond/clarify since the post that started the thread.

He didn't say he's trying to get his son ready for a job, he could just as easily be looking for a fun new toy for his son. People seem to be getting pretty fiesty over interpreting what he was trying to ask.