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SeanLee

Member
Join Date
Mar 2004
Location
Minot, ND
Posts
122
This is probably a stubid question but i am going to school for Industrail Electrician. Ihave found myself addicted to this web site and all the cool control progect everyone is working on. Iwant to know if all of you are Ennginers or are any of you just electricians that get to do this major control set up.
 
Speaking for myself, I graduated High School and enrolled in the School of Real Life where I've attended every day since. I tell you this because some of the members of this forum are indeed engineers, and some wanna be. All levels of formal schooling are represented here, as well as all types of occupations.

Good luck in your sparky classes.
 
I am an Industrial Electrician as well. Project development is sadly only a small part of my job but it keeps me motivated. If I see one more burnt out light bulb today....Stick to the studies, it can be very rewarding.
 
Education: High School, 8 years in US Navy, A.S. Degree,
15 years of OJT.

I got the most out of working with experienced people, watching what they did, listening to what they said, and asking questions.
 
Education

Your first investment dollar SHOULD always be education. That said consider this:

Student A decides to go to school to be an Electrical Engineer.
Cost of school tuition and books: ~ $4000 / yr.(University) low end, hehe) $16,000 total.
Time: 4 tough years

Student B decides to go to school for an A.S. Electronics Technology.
Cost of school tuition and books: $3000 yr (Jr. College) $6000 total.
Time: 2 tough years.

Student B doesn't pay an additional $10,000. Gets job after graduation for $13 hr entry level. First year makes $26,000, 2nd year jumps jobs for $15 hr, makes $30,000.

Student A pays $8000 for tuition while Student B gets a job with Overtime, 2 weeks paid vacation, and full benefits (dental, medical, possible tuition re-imbursement, possible profit sharing). (This is possible!) Student B makes $56,000 while Student A grinds out his last 2 years of his 4 year degree.

Student A graduates, gets a Salary for $18 hr, and works 60 hrs a week. Student B works about 6 hrs a week of O.T. and gets paid time and a half for overtime. Student B takes two vacations to Hawaii while Student A is sweating finals.

Student A calls himself Engineer, Student B calls himself Tech.

Is Student B happier than student A? Who knows, just something to thnik about.

Job Satisfaction? About the same
 
Stick in school, if I were you I would get the Electronics technology degree. I graduated with it in 2001, I have been working for a systems intergrator and got a chance to write a small program. I did very well and now program full time on big applications, but I did start out at $8 bucks an hour. I took it for the the experience, but now 2 years later I am making $19 an hour, and only 2 years out of college. I am very lucky I fell into this job and I am one of the very few who can say I love my job.
 
Me personally, 6 yrs Marine Corps as a comunications electronics tech and lucked into a job doing industrial electrical(if you call less than $7/hr luck). After looking into many panels and wondering how that box with all those flashing lights works, I went to the local comm college to learn PLC. One class turned into many and I received an A.A.S. General Technologies with a concentration in industrial controls. What did this degree do for me that the one or two classes in PLC would have done? Not a freakin thing. However, a whole lot of hard work and convincing people that I could magical things with the magic black box did a world of good for my pay. But, now I am going back to school for my B.A.S. in engineering.
I just got lucky and found a job that pays based on ability and not paper degrees only. $0.02

Dale
 
Unless you get hit by a bus, you've got time, so dont be so impatient as to sell your self short on getting a degree. I say this not because it will make you smarter, but because there are bullet-proof glass ceilings for people working in a large orginization who dont have at least a Bach degree of some sort. 4 years are nothing compared to a 30+ year carear. Hester's analogy begins and ends in 4 years. But take it out to retirement and then compare the rewards.

Besides you might learn how to spell. :rolleyes:

Hester, I wanna know where your Student A went to school for $4,000.00 a year. I've got a 15 year old who's gona be a senior in highschool this fall, and I gota start making plans soon.. At 4K per year I wont give it another thought..

Mike
 
Hi,

I think a degree level education-if approached with intelligence and application- will certainly give you a head
start when it comes to understanding and implementing engineering
solutions to problems.The difference between the Engineer and the
Technician is some what similar to that of the nurse and the doctor.
The doctor will not only know the how but also the why and is therefore in the more knowlegeable position.A technician ,though able
to do the job generally,is still limited to work on a certain level
and usually requires the expertise of thoes above him in the professional ranks.He is essentially limited by his lack of academic
understanding and his ability to work in abstractions is thus impaired simply because he hasn't the abstractions to work with in the first place.A simple example of this would be to expect a low
level technician to understand a Norton equivalent cct of a transistor
when he hadn't even heard of Norton.
 
I know some very bright people w/o degrees and some pretty dumb ones who do. On balance the brighter ones generally have degrees.

Mike's glass ceiling is a great description.

Our engineer in charge of machines is one of the best in this field. We could double his pay and he would still be worth it. He started here right out of high school and spent 20 years in the shop. He has been in engineering for 6 or 7. Unless someone knew him, he would have a hard time getting a job at the same level because of the lack of degree.

Remember, especially in larger orgs, the ones doing the hiring usually have degrees and will be biased toward those that have them too.

On a side note, I have never understood those who won't take training/ classes unless their company paid for it.

BTW- BEE, U of Minnesota. There are some that say can't call myself an engineer w/o a license. But if Microsoft can call their people engineers, I can be one.
 
Tom has the right attitude, I wish more engineers did!

Hester has some good thoughts. I personaaly think Student B is happier.

When I've worked as an engineer (READ endentured slave) I have been unhappy and extremely disagreeable. I readily state that I don't like being an engineer, but it pays better. When I work as an engineer, I remember how it was on the floor, and try to treat the electricians and techs as "Humans".

I have a FCC Commercial Radio licennse. Back in the 70' and early 80's that meant something. I spent about ten years as a radio tech. For the most part, it was really great. None of the supervisors were, thats why I left. Now, most shops don't have any type of licensed or certified tech. Average Tech pay around here now is less than I made in 1985.

When I was 21 (1972) I met my first "REAL" contractor, a rent-a-tech. He was from the east coast. He actually had an engineering degree, but only claimed three years of colege because back then, as today, techs got O.T., engineers (even contract) didn't.

Reminds me in the early 80's, a group was standing in the parking lot of a school at 3:00am. We had been searching for interference with police and fire radios for weeks. When it showed up, we would all call each other and go look for it. There were several police officers, a police dept radio engineer, a radio shop owner, cable company supervisor, and me (police radio tech). I was the only one getting paid. Advantage of being hired help.

My advice is if you decide to become an engineer, start with the EET, work as a tech while becoming an engineer. Try engineering, you can always go back and be a tech. As an engineer, YOU WILL have to work as a tech, at times. Most techs have a hard time working for an engineer who is telling the tech what to do and doesn't have a clue what he (engineer) is talking about.

Bottom line, if you can't spell, you're an engineer.

There is an extremely large number of people on this site that have a wealth of knowledge and experience. I have gained a lot of respect for many of them in a short period of time. Many have posted above.

best regards.....casey
 
I also agree with Mike about the glass ceiling. I really love were I work but am afraid I would not get the money I am getting now if I had to move on. Therefore, I decided to finish my schooling and get my BSEE. I start this fall as a Junior. the cool thing is that my boss is going to let me go to school during the day and work at night. It will be a tough 2 years but I feel that it will be worth it.

Bob
 
From kc9ih -Bottom line, if you can't spell, you're an engineer.

Guess you're an engineer kc9ih, I thought it was "indentured"...

Does endentured mean you have false teeth?

Only jokking (sic)!!
 
Started as an apprentice electrical fitter (do anything type job). Winding motors, installation work, building HV trannies, building main switch boards, control panels, electric welders, service work (trouble shooting). Then they found I had a bent for design. As a third year apprentice finished up designing HV trannies, with the company engineer, and the finished up designing control systems. Long time ago - lots of relays and timers - no microprocessor stuff - in fact the electronics course at technical college had just started teaching about transistors. That ages me does it not.

Went into sales, marketing and management for 25 odd years. Had to learn a bit about PLCs because I had to sell them. Played with them on a workbench. Started programming after hours for customers to learn more. These were the celubrious Hitachi black boxes that were also sold as TI black boxes. The only difference was that the TI units had 110V inputs.

Got a tap on the shoulder from a customer to attend his house on the weekend for a bar-b-que. Seven bottles of red wine later I was working for him. Did not go to work on Monday. I wonder why. Worst overhang I have ever had. The job was designing systems, programming PLCs and SCADA systems and commissioning and trouble shooting.

Many years later, have become a grumpy, impatient old pfhaart with a lot of respect for some engineers and very little for most. I like the engineers that were tradesmen before studying engineering. They are generally far more practical than the calculation whizz kids straight from university and talk a lot more common sense. Academics are the least respected as they are all theory. Must have gained some respect from some of the more practical engineers as I have been engaged by some of the larger ones to design systems for them to go out with tenders.

Have one huge weakness, maths. Peter Nachtway totally confuses me with his formulae etc. He does know what he is talking about though, from the bits and pieces that I understand. Strengths come from many years doing many things and learning from falling on the seat of one's pants more times than can be counted.

I guess that stumbling from one crises to another and learning from falling on the seat of one's pants is more difficult these days. Everyone wants a piece of paper, although many of them are only good for hanging from a piece of string in the you know where.

I have several "certificates" from technical colleges including electrical engineering (not counted as anything these days), sales and marketing diplomas, certificates for several parts of out instumentation degree, I only did the bits that interested me such as temperature measurement etc. These count for very little as they were not attained through a "proper" university.

I do not know how your trade and engineering degree system works there but my suggestion would be to attain trade qualifications with a company that does everything. These are becoming hard to find but the car industry would be a really good place to start. Then get your degree. You will be looked on by floor and trade staff far more favourably if you travel this route. You will also be far more practical in your approach to engineering in the long term.

Just my thoughts.
 
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