patent for plc program

morzian

Member
Join Date
Dec 2002
Posts
10
We just finish a project in one of our clients. Can the PLC program be patented? We're planning to apply patent on PLC program... better to ask now than be rejected later :)
 
Unlike many years ago, it is now possible to patent software in most countries. However, it can be very, very expensive. The patent process can vary from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars, depending on how basic the patented item is, how complex the claims are, and how many nations you wish to have coverage in. There is a Patent Cooperation Treaty that allows a single application to provide temporary protection in a great many countries, but eventually you have to have a filing in most nations separately.

It is more common to patent the process that is being controlled, and the programming is just a part of the entire process.

Unless your software is very unique with a great variety of commercial applications it may not be economically worthwhile to patent your software. In most cases I simply copyright the software. This can be accomplished by simply putting a notice in the program, and on all documentaiton and manuals. An example:

Copyright ESCOR - Energy Strategies Corp. 2003. All rights Reserved.

I'm not sure about the Phillipines, but in the US you can get slight additional copyright protection at a nominal cost by registering the copyright with the Patent and Trademark Office. I've never done this, so I don't know the details.

Remember, a patent doesn't prevent anyone from duplicating your invention - it just gives you the right to sue them if they do and if you find out about it. A patent is as much a commercial document as it is a technical one. The projected benefits should exceed the probable expenses for application and enforcement before you proceed with the patent process.
 
I'm not a lawyer, but I bought a few nice houses, cars, and boats for more than one. In my opinion that makes me a persudeo expert.

As far as I know, copyrights need to be regestered. In other words, and copy of your program, or other copyrighted document is filed with the gov. with the application. This is to provide documentation that you authored the document before the other guy. Your application becomes part of the public record, so anybody can look it up and get all the gory details of your work.

The same goes for patents. But with a patent your device, or process must be shown to be unique, usefull, and actualy does the job. Again it all becomes a matter of public record. You must apply within a year of making your idea public.

In either case if some big international coperation steals your idea, than it's entirely up to you to enforce your rights to the patent, or copyright. If you cant afford the legal battle your going to loose. In this case the attornys will profit much more than you.

If you really want to protect your rights to your program, than password it and hold the password dearly to your heart.

That's my "expert opinion"

Mike.
 
If you want to learn about Copyright laws in the US go here: http://www.copyright.gov/
I am not sure that plc code could be copyrighted but thats why there are lawyers.

For patents or trademarks in the US go here: http://www.uspto.gov/
As Tom mentioned this process can be very expensive and a lawyer is pretty much necessary, which increases the price. I can state from personal experience that it can easily start at $5000 US and go up from there plus there are continuing fees that apply.

I agree with Tom that you would have more luck protecting the process than just the code.

NOTE: In the past there has been mention of building something to sell to an employer. Its possible by law that if you build something relevant to your present employers business they will actually OWN that process...maybe not your equipment if you paid for it but legally can take away the concept, design, program etc. This is legal even if you have NOT signed any disclosure forms etc.

BTDT
 
Mike, you suffer from a common misconception. It is NOT necessary to register your copyright with the government. The following is quoted from the link provided by Ron:

"The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright."

It IS necessary to file a patent with a government(s).
 
Tom,

I dont get it??? the following text is from" http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#cr



Original Registration
To register a work, send the following three elements in the same envelope or package to:

Library of Congress
Copyright Office
101 Independence Avenue, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20559-6000

A properly completed application form.
A nonrefundable filing fee of $30 for each application.
NOTE: Copyright Office fees are subject to change. For current fees, please check the Copyright Office Website at www.copyright.gov, write the Copyright Office, or call (202) 707-3000.



A nonreturnable deposit of the work being registered. The deposit requirements vary in particular situations. The general requirements follow. Also note the information under "Special Deposit Requirements."
If the work was first published in the United States on or after January 1, 1978, two complete copies or phonorecords of the best edition.

If the work was first published in the United States before January 1, 1978, two complete copies or phonorecords of the work as first published.

If the work was first published outside the United States, one complete copy or phonorecord of the work as first published.

If sending multiple works, all applications, deposits, and fees should be sent in the same package. If possible, applications should be attached to the appropriate deposit. Whenever possible, number each package (e. g., 1 of 3, 2 of 4) to facilitate processing.

Additionally to quote the entire paragraph of your quote:

The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following Note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See "Copyright Registration."
 
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It's a little confusing, I admit.

You establish your copyright simply by putting the copyright notice or the little c in a circle symbol on the program and its documentation. That is all you need to establish a copyright.

You MAY also register the copyright, and get some additional advantages. From Ron's link:

"COPYRIGHT REGISTRATION
In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copyright. However, registration is not a condition of copyright protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make registration. Among these advantages are the following:

Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.

Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U. S. origin.

If made before or within 5 years of publication, registration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.

If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.

Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for protection against the importation of infringing copies. For additional information, request Publication No. 563 "How to Protect Your Intellectual Property Right," from: U.S. Customs Service, P.O. Box 7404, Washington, D.C. 20044. See the U.S. Customs Service Website at http://www.cbp.gov/ for online publications.

Registration may be made at any time within the life of the copyright. Unlike the law before 1978, when a work has been registered in unpublished form, it is not necessary to make another registration when the work becomes published, although the copyright owner may register the published edition, if desired."


If you want to sue someone for coyright infringement, at that time you can register, and must do so in order to file suit.

This applies to the US only. European Community rules are similar, but different in many ways. I have no idea if the Phillipines follows the US model, the European model, or have gone their own way completely!

Again, copyrights and patents are commercial things. Decisions about pursuing them are business decisions, not technical ones. If you are publishing an engineering text it makes economic sense to register the copyright. If you have a PLC program for controlling a machine, the time and hastle of registering the copyright probably isn't worthwhile when you can put everyone on alert that this is intellectual propery with the copyright notice and protect the info as a trade secret as much as possible. If you ever want to sue someone for stealing your property, you can spend the money then for registration.

If you have a potentially patentable invention for a narrowly applicable technology, the expense of a patent isn't worth the benefit. If you have a fundamental technology for, say, spread spectrum frequency hopping communications with a wide range of applications you are stupid not to patent it, even if you have to give up some ownership to raise the money to do so.
 
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Tom,

Take off the gloves and step outside! You just called my childhood secret love interest STUPID, and now I'm really insulted!

Hedi Lamar, yes the bombshell actress that played Delilah, is the inventor of Spread Spectrum. And no she didn’t copyright, or patent it, she gave it to Uncle Sam.

Back to topic. You are correct, however prudence dictactes that you regester your copyright before the trouble starts.

Mike.
 
Actually, Mike, I picked the spread spectrum example specifically because I knew about Lamar's contribution.

My understanding is that she and her co-inventor (a musician) actually did receive a patent on it but offered the license to the US government at no charge as part of the war effort. The US didn't use the technology during WWII, but it is the basis for the frequency hiopping in spread spectrum radios that are widely used today.

A link for the interested:

http://www.inventions.org/culture/female/lamarr.html
 
Tom,

Thanks for the link; this one's a keeper for me. I was always under the impression that she never, compleated the patent process, or profited from it. According to your link I guess I was wrong about that.

It's kinda funny; she starts off with this guy looking for a bigger chest, and ends up with spread sprectrum. :eek:

Mike.
 
We just finish a project in one of our clients. Can the PLC program be patented? We're planning to apply patent on PLC program... better to ask now than be rejected later

Knock yerself out, but might I ask if there exists any prior art on your idea?

You know, just in case I want to do business as usual...


But you should stand a good chance of getting it anyways, with what the USPTO is smoking these days. Look at what happened to Microsoft with their lawsuit with Eolas Technology (however they did rescind the patent - after the damage was done). And they just gave Amazon their second brain-dead patent. Idiots.


Not to sound cynical, but IMHO software patents are a hindrance to progress, which is why the patent office exists in the first place (according to congress anyways, I suspect they serve other entiti^H^H^H^H^H^Hpurposes).

Good references (at least for arguing against):
http://swpat.ffii.org/

However, hardware patents for actual advances are fine by me.


As for copyright, Tom's right. We FOSS freaks copyright stuff all the time (and haven't lost a case yet).

And don't confuse copyright with license, just because you may have an open policy to the use of your work, doesn't mean that you give up ownership.

A good example of this is "freeware" that doesn't require any consideration from the end user. While this may be "free" in the sense of cost, the ownership of the work still resides with the creator (and that individual retains the right to make any later version of the software as restrictive as they choose to).

And I think that these copyrights exist in perpetuity if they incorporate a small, mouse like, animated creature.


Sorry, got worked up there for a moment.


John
 
Can I answer it this way.

Most PLC's have an OEM lock you can put on software which stops people from downloading, editing or seeing it. Has anyone out there know this to be broken. The only way in one with an OEM lock is a complete wipe

If so then an OEM locked program is safe and no one can copy your program, however if other people reverse engineer the project with out using any of your code. thats not enforcable under any law, only if they use sections of your code is a copywrite.

Would the group let me know if they know of anyones OEM being broken?
 
Copyright clarified

First of all the copyright registration has nothing to do with
US Patent and Trademark office Tom!
You register your copyright with Library of Congress.
When you copyright your software you send in the first 25 pages and the last 25 pages of your code. You are only copyrighting the TEXT!
You are not copyrighting ideas, algorithms, sequence of operation or any othe intellectual property withing your code.
Also it makes no difference what programming language you have used.
It is OK to copyright Ladder logic.

If you Copyright without registration you use the following form:

(c) copyright 1997 TomanTron, Inc.
 

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