PanelView Standard 600/300 Equivalents for the future?

CeeDee

Member
Join Date
Jun 2014
Location
Bremerton, WA.
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94
Hello again,
I'm pondering the inevitable, that the Allen Bradley HMIs I work with and I'm responsible for, will eventually die.
A handful of Panelview standard 600s and 300 micros are on machines that use SLC500 controllers and some micrologix controllers.
Allen Bradley no longer supports or sales this line of HMIs anymore. I'm glad they still have the SLCs. Phew! I just opened a brand new one a few months ago for a bench-test stand I made. I work for a company that hangs onto equipment until they are deemed unrepairable and the company doesn't buy used either. Trying to plan for the future and to continue support of these existing setups, what are my equivalent replacement solutions?? I'm kind of lost. I'm trying to take into account control cabinet existing HMI mounting cut-outs, existing PLC compatibility, and HMI programming software. I just got the hang of the panelbuilder32 program earlier this year. GEEZzz! But, that too is no longer supported or sold.

Any ideas? Suggestions? Particular things to watch out for or stay away from?

I appreciate the advice.
 
The PanelView Plus 600 will drop into the cutout for the PanelView 600 (at least, the Touch-Only ones will) so I've used them for replacements. Migration from PanelBuilder32 to FactoryTalk View Studio was... okay.

But nothing fits the PanelView 300 or 300 Micro cutout.

Now that I'm more familiar with them, I would choose Red Lion G3, Graphite, or Kadet every time. The learning curve can be steep, but the value, power, flexibility and support are the best I've found in the category of proprietary OS touchscreen HMIs.

For anything bigger than six inches we typically go Indusoft Web Studio on Windows 7 or Windows CE.
 
I am with Ken. If I have my choice of HMI I always go for the Red Lion. The Graphite series is a great product. The software is free too.

Given that the conversion from Panelbuilder to FT View ME is not just a import and done type of conversion you may be able to make the argument with the boss to convert over to Red Lion. It is going to take a lot of work either way.

Just my opinion.
 
Those sound like winners to me. I've never used them before and am totally in the dark with how they program and how they hook up. Like I said, I just learned how to use A-B panelbuilder32 earlier this year. As long as the red lion products you suggest will communicate with pre-existing A-B SLC and Micrologix controllers it should work for the industrial environment these will be in.
I believe I might be able to do a single purchase to try one out. I hope the Graphite series sticks around for awhile since that is the one I'm eye-balling at the moment. I've been hunting around the Redlion website and google trying to learn more about these things.
This may call for a separate post, but I'm intrigued with the remote monitoring feature listed on the Graphite series. I was tasked summer of this year to start looking at a "callback" system of some type to text or call designated personnel if a machine faults out. Hmmm...
 
Hi-jack away! ...I'm starting to like the Kadet series more. The price is pretty good. And I don't need that many bells and whistles for it. I'm looking at it to possibly replace the Panelview 300Micro that controls an automated air dehydrator. I was told A-B Component series was the replacement for the panelview micro. So I got 2 brand new C400s to play with (still haven't had the chance to play with) and see how to integrate.

My question is, how hard are the Kadets using crimson to program? ...for a newbie, like me?
 
You'll want to use the Graphite series, not Kadet, if you want long term replacement support.

The Kadet series is a Weintek hardware (or at least an exact replica), which Maple Systems also sells. It's been out for a while and I wouldn't recommend it for long term support & replacement.
The Graphite series is newer and will offer you better long-term support. Ask them where each is manufactured then make up your mind.

The software is intuitive to learn, so you shouldn't have too many troubles. If you can handle PB32 on your own then you can handle the Red Lion software.
 
I appreciate the heads up on the Kadet series. See, that is something I didn't know or could find anywhere online. Thats good info. I will definitely need long term support, especially with new IT dept. provided laptops and software coming sometime next year. These machines using the HMIs I'm working with are bought to run until they fail, then we repair them, run them, and repair them over and over until they pretty much just can't be repaired any more.
I also appreciate the confidence in the Redlion software. I might just have to personally buy the most affordable one I can with my own money and play with it at home before making a work purchase.
Thanks for the advice!
 
CeeDee,
All the Red Lion HMI's will work great with your SLC and Micrologix PLC's. I have personally used the RL with both of those processors. If you have or can put the SLC and Micrologix on a Ethernet network it is even easier!!.

As for longevity the Graphite is a new product. They just recently received UL approval and Class 1 Div 2 rating. So we are talking about a very new product with a long life ahead of it.

The previous line of HMI, G3 has been a tried and true platform. I have used several of them and really like them. The Graphite just builds on what the G3 has done and takes it up a notch.

Here is story that just gives me one more reason why I prefer the Red Lion. I recently built several panels that used PV 600+. I had to ship the units from our UL shop up to my Skid Fabrication shop. I had my packaging guy build a special pallet to ship the units. He strapped them down. wrapped them in plastic and even put a do not stack "cone" on the top. They arrived at my shop with no visible damage (so there was no freight damage claim). The Plastic rap was not even scraped. When we opened up the panel the Panelview looked like it had exploded!! The whole thing is plastic and the the pallet must have been dropped or something like that. The plastic clips had given up and the board and display dropped out. It cost $1200 to get it repaired. A new one was $2000.

The Red Lion Graphite and G3 series are all metal on the back side. There is no way that a drop or bump would do that kind of damage!! You would have to run it over or drop it of the truck to maybe damage it. Both units are just rock solid.

BTW the G306 cost about $900. So for what I paid for the new PV and the repair I could have bought three Red Lion's.

If you have any problems finding a distributor for the Red Lion in the Seattle area you can PM me and I will give you my local guy's info. He has done me a good job. I am sure Ken and also point you to his local connection too.
 
Web Studio has a PanelBuilder conversion utility that is nearly 100%. SoftPLC sells 6-21" HMI's with Web Studio pre-installed with WinCE, Win Embedded or Windows. Might be a better option than re-engineering the entire application.
 
I might just have to personally buy the most affordable one I can with my own money and play with it at home before making a work purchase.

CeeDee,
I just spoke with a couple of distributors and also to RedLion Tech Support.
You can download the Crimson3 software for free and try it as emulator, which is included in the software. So no need to purchase out of you pocket for an acutal terminal unless you really want to.

Also shop around before you buy, I was quoted BIG difference in price between vendors.

BCS
 
Bullzi -
If you have or can put the SLC and Micrologix on a Ethernet network it is even easier!!
I'd love to if I knew more about it and how to do it. It has been awhile since I was in school for this stuff, and a lot has changed. Anything to make things work better and easier, I'm all in. My company just sucks for job-specific technical training. I do most of my training from hands on trial and error, google and youtube videos these days. So I tend to stick with what I already know or what I've just learned until I have free time to play.

Bering C Sparky -
You can download the Crimson3 software for free and try it as emulator, which is included in the software.
I didn't know you could do that! I'll have to try that out this weekend. I was going to start looking at A-B's Factory Talk View thingy for the newer PanelViews on youtube and see what I might be dealing with. I have a feeling I might get some push back with the Redlion HMIs since everyone at our facility seems to use Allen Bradley, but I've mentioned some of the benefits I've learned about switching and trying something new.

Cody -
Web Studio has a PanelBuilder conversion utility that is nearly 100%
. If someone in IT/Security knows this or finds out, then this might put the nail on the coffin for the Redlion stuff. But it is nice to know its there if I do get stuck with that as my only option.


You guys are awesome! Is there any good training for this stuff?

This stuff, I mean automation control, HMI installation and programming, integration, etc. I know Rockwell automation hands-on/lecture training for RSlogix500 was given to our crew many years ago (before my time, probably when RSlogix500 was still relatively new) in Seattle. All those techs that attended no longer work in our department. I haven't seen any shred of that kind of training like that in the 4 years I've been with this company. I wouldn't mind paying out of pocket for my own training and experience in this field.

Sorry, I've digressed this thread.
 
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Are there any UK guys on here reading this that are using any of the alternatives suggested above? I did a project in 2009 using an AB Micro PV 300. I might be repeating that project shortly.
 
The PV300Micro I still use today.
It is a nice little unit once you get used to it. It's simple and effective. Nothing fancy. But it is old. Fear of when they finally die on me is what leads me here to find out other solutions. I have two C400 component series that are new in the box on standby to replace the PV300micros just in case. And then, I'll be holding a cram session on how to program those darn things. If I'm lucky, maybe it will be a priority by then and I can do it on overtime!
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