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Old October 3rd, 2018, 10:49 AM   #1
milmat1
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Help with spec sheet ??

My friends,
I would like your suggestions here. I am developing a spec sheet to be filled out by the sales / mechanical dept. The purpose is to get me the information I need to properly design the control system.

We are an OEM building machinery for several industries, including material handling, bulk materials, brick handling, sawing equipment etc. Almost always standard 480V 60hz machines with PLC control and at least one touch screen hmi. Safety systems including zone control.

What would you want on such a spec sheet ?


Plant Voltage?
Environment ?

Temperature ?
Hazardous location Y/N ?
Type of hazard ?


Name some items you would want to know before beginning ?
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Old October 3rd, 2018, 10:56 AM   #2
Dravik
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Regulatory and AHJ requirements outside of normal compliance requirements. (IE, for example compliance with CFR 21 Part 11 for Pharma industries)

Safety requirements
Ergonomic Requirements
Language Requirements
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Old October 3rd, 2018, 11:44 AM   #3
James Mcquade
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Since you are the oem, your customer is to provide you with the specs.

questions I would ask.
what is the machine and what does it do
what is the poser requirements
what is the preferred plc and hmi
what plc software does the company have
what is the environment that the equipment is to be located !!!

Details up front is time consuming, BUT will save your rear end in the long run!
the more you ask, the more you know and learn, the more the price stays the same or goes up.

we always spell out what we are providing in detail.
if we get the job and quote is as a regular environment and the customer fails to tell us its a classified area, we have our quote we sent to them to fall back
on.

lots of other questions, but this is a start.
james
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Old October 3rd, 2018, 11:56 AM   #4
milmat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Mcquade View Post
Since you are the oem, your customer is to provide you with the specs.

questions I would ask.
what is the machine and what does it do
what is the poser requirements
what is the preferred plc and hmi
what plc software does the company have
what is the environment that the equipment is to be located !!!

Details up front is time consuming, BUT will save your rear end in the long run!
the more you ask, the more you know and learn, the more the price stays the same or goes up.

we always spell out what we are providing in detail.
if we get the job and quote is as a regular environment and the customer fails to tell us its a classified area, we have our quote we sent to them to fall back
on.

lots of other questions, but this is a start.
james

Thank You !
This is the type of info I am looking for. I seem to get bitten on the rear end with every project because of this lack of communications...
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Old October 3rd, 2018, 05:36 PM   #5
Tom Jenkins
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HMI requirements - color, screen size, etc.
Selector switches, pilot lights, pushbuttons, manual override requirements
Communications requirements for SCADA, protocols, etc.
Customer preferred PLC brand
Field instruments to be provided and powered
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Old October 11th, 2018, 03:34 PM   #6
milmat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Jenkins View Post
HMI requirements - color, screen size, etc.
Selector switches, pilot lights, pushbuttons, manual override requirements
Communications requirements for SCADA, protocols, etc.
Customer preferred PLC brand
Field instruments to be provided and powered

Great Choices !!
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Old October 11th, 2018, 10:36 PM   #7
James Mcquade
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I would also ad what type of plc programming to use an what to exclude.

we use ladder logic only.
we do not allow fuzzy logic, grafcet, structured text, function blocks, sequencers, fifo.
ladder logic only and have the program given to maintenance to look at first.
the reason is that most maintenance personnel understand basic ladder logic.

james
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Old October 12th, 2018, 03:53 AM   #8
cardosocea
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I doubt that most companies would contact you and not give this, but I would nevertheless ask about their HMI and PLC programming standards.
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Old October 12th, 2018, 10:59 AM   #9
James Mcquade
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Specify the brand names and model #'s for the plc with spare requirements, hmi brand, scada brand and tag size with spares.
Specify everything !, or you may be forced to accept what they give you
which can turn out to be a boat anchor.

SPECIFY that all cylinders have sensors at each end for example.
running a bunch of cylinders using timers is a total waste of time!
load cells are to be rated for impact shock which means a that a 25 lb load cell must be rated for 250 lbs due to shock or they will only last for a month or 2, then they wear out.
string pots must have mechanical support such that the end of the pot does not bend ad the connection point and break due to fatigue.

james
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Old October 12th, 2018, 11:18 AM   #10
Rson
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It depends on what type of controls you deal with often. For me the first questions I have to ask here are:

Is the machine indoors or outdoors?
Desired \ Required panel rating? (NEMA 4, 4x, 12, etc)
Does this have to be UL certified?
Control voltage: 24VDC or 120VAC?
How many motors, what HP rating for each, and VFD or Contactor control?
Local \ Remote modes required for each motor?
Are we using a PLC\HMI? (Yes, unfortunately, I still design relay panels every now and then)
PLC Brand \ Series
HMI Brand \ Series
Communications protocol
Interlocks (with Plant via ethernet \ dry contacts \ connector \ etc)

Based on that information alone, I have a pretty good idea of panel size and cost.

I'll also ask for them to either give me a sequence of operations (or at least how they think it should run) or I'll take the information above and write my own sequence to give to them. Sequences written out is a really easy way to communicate with people who don't understand controls (ie - almost all project managers)
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