Forces Grayed Out

chippieboy

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I have a AB Logix 5555 PLC and am using RS Logix 5000 Standard Edition Version 15.02.00 Software.
I go online everything looks good but when I try to force an Input or Output (via right click options) the force options toward the bottom of the page are grayed out. I tried all key positions but no luck. I know I am connected correctly because I see the inputs and outputs change as the machine is running. I also know about only inputs/outputs can be forced not internal bits.
I have 2 other pieces of equipment that are running AB SLC 504 with RS Logix 500 and the force options work fine with that version of software.
 
What do you mean by the "Forces Enabled"? Is that the option below the "Go Online" in the upper left of the software? And yes I have tried all of those combos. Still no luck
 
welcome to the forum ...

can you post a screen shot of what you're seeing? ... or at least give us an example of the address that you're trying to force ... (example: Local:1:I.Data.0) ...

here's just a GUESS based on what you've posted so far ... maybe you've clicked on an XIC instruction - and the address assigned to that instruction is something like Cycle_In_Progress ...

no offense intended - but some folks think that the XIC instruction is a "input" (and therefore is capable of being forced) ...

but ...

unless Cycle_In_Progress has been set up as an Alias (a street name) for an input - then the forces will be "grayed out" ...

SECRET HANDSHAKE: you don't force INSTRUCTIONS - such as an XIC or OTE ... instead forces are applied to the ADDRESS which appears over the instruction ...

here's a link that might be helpful to you ...

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?p=537414&postcount=1
 
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Maxkling said:
Do you have the forces enabled option set?

chippieboy said:
What do you mean by the "Forces Enabled"? Is that the option below the "Go Online" in the upper left of the software?...

Just a pit-stop on this one...

Maxkling,

I think what you are referring to is the RSLogix 500 method of installing and enabling forces via the "Online" toolbar at the top of the software window?

Once forces are installed and enabled we would then see the status "Forces Installed" and "Forces Enabled" displayed up on the "Online" toolbar.

Our friend is using RSLogix 5000 software...

chippieboy said:
I have a AB Logix 5555 PLC and am using RS Logix 5000 Standard Edition Version 15.02.00 Software...

For RSLogix 5000 version 15, we also have the "Online" toolbar at the top of the software window. Except here we do not ever see the Status "Forces Enabled" during the installation or enabling of forces. It will simply state "No Forces" or "Forces". The forces installed and enabled or disabled status are indicated by both the change in colour of the pointer icon to the right (Red for forces installed and enabled, Purple for no forces installed but forces enabled) and the background of the icon (Yellow for forces enabled, Gray for forces disabled).

The Red pointer icon is also displayed in the "Value" field for a tag address that has a force both installed and enabled. If the tag has a force installed but not enabled, the "Value" will be displayed in Purple. For an instruction assigned a tag address which may be forced, the text "ON" or "OFF" only will be displayed under the instruction when a force is installed but not enabled. When also enabled, the Red pointer icon will also be displayed to the left of the "ON" or "OFF" text.

Note: Red and Purple are default colours used by the software. They can be changed under the Workstation Options found under Tools/Options.

For Logix5000 projects, the "Online" toolbar has historically been used in RSLogix 5000 right up through and until Studio 5000 Logix Designer v30. At Logix Designer v31, and since v32, it has changed both in name, function and appearance. It is now referred to as the "Controller Overview". The layout is slightly different and also the original and separate "Path Bar" has now been incorporated.

Here's a sample view of the difference in software platforms and the difference since v31...

Logix_500_5k%20-%20Enable_IO_Forcing.jpg


I'd also like to see here a screenshot or example of what is being attempted to be "forced"?

Regards,
George
 
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the address I_031_Bit06 is not an "input" ... at least not in the sense that it is able to be forced ...

we can't tell for sure based on what you've posted - but that address SEEMS TO BE an alias for the tag I[25].6 ... the pop-up menu is blocking the rest of the tag name - but it certainly looks like you have an alias set up to reference a bit within an array ...

we won't be able to tell what that particular tag is tied to without being able to see more of your project file ... I'd be willing to bet (a little more than pocket change) that you're dealing with DeviceNet connections ...

are you allowed to post your ENTIRE project file? (the ACD extension) ... you'll have to zip it first and then attach it ...
 
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It has to be a digital I/O point in order to be forced. In this case your program does not reference either your input or output as a real world digital point therefore forcing is not available. However what is available is to "toggle Bit" which basically is a semi force. The bit will toggle sate 1 or 0 back and forth UNLESS there is logic being executed elsewhere that is actively writing it to a state. This is quickly realized if you try to "toggle" the bit and nothing happens. Forcing will stay at the forced state no matter what the logic says to do, this is not the case with "toggle"

You can put programmers contacts as or condition logic below your actual bits and toggle those instead. If you do this you must be disciplined to keep track of things, there is no "clear Toggled Bits" option, you as the programmer must pay attention to it. These are also retentive, meaning when you toggle it, it will stay that way unless you toggle it back or your logic changes its state. They are not affected by downloads or power cycles.
 
My tuppence worth...

It's possible the references in Blue (Example: <[25].6>) are Program-Scoped tags (Array) located under "Parameters and Local Tags" within the Program "EMBA_CONTROL"?

The tags that are actually assigned to the instructions in Black (Example: I_031_Bit06) may also be Program-Scoped to "EMBA_CONTROL" but were created as Program-Scoped Alias tags referencing the aforementioned Program-Scoped base tags?

This, of course, is in keeping with other folks thinking here, or thereabouts and these tag addresses would not be eligible for forcing. This would also be known as Multiple Aliasing and would be considered bad practice.

If you can't post your full project can you at least locate the relevant "Black and Blue" tags in your Program and display a screenshot of them in their Parameter and Local Tags window. Then we might be able to see more info regarding their "Alias For" and "Base Tag" columns. If doing so make sure they are visible please.

G.
 
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OK Ron I think you are on to something... By DeviceNet, do you mean, connecting the main plc to other I/O racks via blue tube or data highway? That makes sense now. But I know nothing about "Alias" and if they can be forced some way or some how. I downloaded the program when we received the machine, and did the tags so I could get this thing running. It has a new Logix 5555 PLC that replaced two older racks and 3 AB I/O racks made in the 1980's connecting with the data highway.
The zip upload is limited to 397 KB and my file size is 492 so what do I do?
 

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