Profibus Master Slave communication

These are all ethernet based protocols.
For ethernet, all you need as a switch with port mirroring. You can then send a copy off all the traffic between 2 devices to your PC.

I don't think so. Take a look on the considered protocols

At first we will be concentrating on providing adapters for the most widely used protocols such as:

BACnet

Beckhoff ADS (TCP)

Emerson DeltaV (UDP)

EtherNet/IP (TCP)

KNXNet/IP (UDP)

Modbus (TCP)

OPC-UA (TCP)

Profinet

S7-STEP7 (TCP)

S7-TIA (TCP)
 
Also, so far they have done Beckhoff ADS, Modbus TCP, OPC UA and Siemens S7. At least that is what it says on their webpage.
They have intention of doing Profinet, but so far nothing done.
Why dont you join the apache group ?
 
I dont know about Bacnet, but all the other mentioned protocols are ethernet based.

Thank you JesperMP for your valuable reply
Do you know if there is any developement kit I can use to connect to profibus/profinet or Hart devices and retreive the devices' data directly without having to browse and analyze the frame content

Best regards
 
Thank you JesperMP for your valuable reply
Do you know if there is any developement kit I can use to connect to profibus/profinet or Hart devices and retreive the devices' data directly without having to browse and analyze the frame content

Best regards
I am confused as to what you really want to achieve.
In post #6 you wrote that you wanted to analyze the traffic between master and slave.
Now you want to retrieve data without analyzing the traffic.

In a nutshell, what is it that you have to achieve ?
 
ABB make a USB to Hart communicator.
https://new.abb.com/products/measur...ement-fieldbus-and-wireless/hart/hart-adapter
You have already linked one for PROFIBUS.
ProfiNET does not need a special card and can just use a standard copper ethernet port from a PC.

I have found master and slave simulator for Modbus.
This is the software for the Master
https://www.windows10download.com/modbus-poll-64-bit/
and this one is for the slave
https://modbus-slave.software.informer.com/download/#downloading
I succeeded to establish a TCP/IP connection between both programs and send data from master to slave
I need to do the same thing with profinet, profibus and hart

Best regards
 
So, you actually do not need to analyze anything, despite what you wrote in posts #6 and #7.
You need to fetch data to a PC from Profibus or Profinet slaves.
That is your task ?
If so ...

For Profibus, you need some Profibus capable hardware. The various vendors (Siemens, Softing, ... others ?) for the hardware also have drivers and libraries for accessing the hardware, and this is usually not free.

For Profinet, there are Profinet stacks that can be used on a 'normal' PC ethernet card (softing, Codesys ... others ?). These are usually not free, but can often be run in a demo mode for a limited time.
 
So, you actually do not need to analyze anything, despite what you wrote in posts #6 and #7.
You need to fetch data to a PC from Profibus or Profinet slaves.
That is your task ?
If so ...

For Profibus, you need some Profibus capable hardware. The various vendors (Siemens, Softing, ... others ?) for the hardware also have drivers and libraries for accessing the hardware, and this is usually not free.

For Profinet, there are Profinet stacks that can be used on a 'normal' PC ethernet card (softing, Codesys ... others ?). These are usually not free, but can often be run in a demo mode for a limited time.

Thank you very much
So Codesys can be run as both client and server at the same time?
 
When you mention "simulator for the master", do you mean there exist a software-based Profibus master for PCs ?

Anyway, I think that to learn about these protocols by simply listening in on the wires will be a big task, if not impossible. I wonder what it is that momo aims to achieve.

Hello Jesper: Sorry for late reply. Was unable to check the forum in the last few days. It looks like Momo wants to setup a lab for the study of some industrial communication protocols. I hope we can provide useful advice. Young people like him with knowledge of old fieldbuses are probably not very many, so I wish him success. In 10 years or so such engineers will be highly valued as the current generation starts retiring...

To your question, I have never used the bihl-wiedemann profibus master simulator. It seems it requires an RS232C/RS485 converter and that it does manage GSD files, My guess is that this software would allow the establishment of DP-V0 and perhaps some acyclic PD-V1 messaging, but the information in the datasheet is not so detailed, hence I cannot confirm this. It will likely be restricted to slow baud-rates as the bus controller is the PC's UART, not a Profibus DP ASIC. Such a tool has only practical value for verification the functionality of a Profibus device in the workbench without a PLC, or for a Profibus developer. For a practical application such as for FTD/DTM based calibration and parametrization, it is much better to use the Softing PbProUSB.

However, I am not so sure this solution will work for Momo as I doubt the bihl-wiedemann tool will be free. The links for this software are shown below:

https://www.bihl-wiedemannn.de/en/products/software/profinet-master-simulator.html

https://www.bihl-wiedemann.de/en/pr...w-bus-couplersmaster-simulators/l/bw1131.html

What I write next may sound very geeky, but I will say it anyways. Since Momo is probably a student, he does not need to make a factory run. It seems he wants to study Profibus DP. If he can get bihl-wiedemann to provide a student license and he can get his converter, and also some Profibus DP slave, in order to study the protocol he would need to buy either the Softing's BC-700 or the Procentec's Profitrace, both of which are 5 figure tools. But with only the Profibus simulator he could install Wireshark and enable the USB WinPCAP driver. On the PC he would need a USB-RS232C converter and Wireshark would capture the Profibus traffic encapsulated in USB packets and of course it would not be decoded with the Profibus protocol parsing capability that Softing or Procentec provide. But, OK, we are talking here something free of charge, and you get what you pay for.

From an academic point of view he will need to learn USB and Profibus DP, and this is a lot of work, but if he cracks this he will become an expert.
 
AlfredoQuintero: this is what I need to do. Would it be possible to give me more details about that? Should I have a raspberryPI card to do it? Or it would be possible through two PCs running windows (I think one PC is enough as I can use the localhost 127.0.0.1 address)

Thank you for your reply


hello momo1501:


Sorry for my late reply. No you cannot run the Profinet master and the Profinet slave on the same computer, becasue the Codesys Windows PLC task can only be instantiated once. So I recommend you that you use either two PCs, or you can try using a virtual machine and have codesys running one the real and on the virtual PC. You can even use the virtual Ethernet interface and Wireshack will let you capture the Profinet traffic. Wireshark has an astoundingly good dissector for Profinet, so it will be very useful for your learning. you need to go to the Codesys online store and download the Codesys engineering tool.


If you manage to setup this system you can also do the same for the Codesys EtherNet/IP Scanner and adapter.


Good luck and let me know if you need more help.
 
I have found master and slave simulator for Modbus.
This is the software for the Master
https://www.windows10download.com/modbus-poll-64-bit/
and this one is for the slave
https://modbus-slave.software.informer.com/download/#downloading
I succeeded to establish a TCP/IP connection between both programs and send data from master to slave
I need to do the same thing with profinet, profibus and hart

Best regards
momo1501:

Hello. It seems you birthday is approaching.

Yes with Modbus you can setup your system only with Windows software as you explain. For Profinet please read my precvious post.

But for HART you can not because HART requires a special hardware due to the physics of this protocol. You do need a real HART instrument such as a pressure sensor or temperature sensor and you would need a HART modem. There are some in the market and probably in eBay there is some used stuff at reasonable cost. I can take the time to look around for you if you promise me that there is an actual possibility greater than zero that you can buy this stuff. If there is no chance you can get the budget then I prefer not to do this because it will take some 20 minutes to find something suitable and do not want to waste my time.
 
momo1501:

Hello. It seems you birthday is approaching.

Yes with Modbus you can setup your system only with Windows software as you explain. For Profinet please read my precvious post.

But for HART you can not because HART requires a special hardware due to the physics of this protocol. You do need a real HART instrument such as a pressure sensor or temperature sensor and you would need a HART modem. There are some in the market and probably in eBay there is some used stuff at reasonable cost. I can take the time to look around for you if you promise me that there is an actual possibility greater than zero that you can buy this stuff. If there is no chance you can get the budget then I prefer not to do this because it will take some 20 minutes to find something suitable and do not want to waste my time.

AlfredoQuintero
I am very grateful for your multiples replys
I will explain in more details what I need to do
I need to develop an adapter (be it profibus, profinet or Hart-IP). The adapter should connect to a profibus/profinet/Hart-IP network to retreive data from the devices. I didn't need to go into the details of the frames of these protocols. I simply need some software that it can catch the received frames on the network and provide the tags/values that are transported by these frames
Thank you in advance for you reply
Best regards
 
AlfredoQuintero
I am very grateful for your multiples replys
I will explain in more details what I need to do
I need to develop an adapter (be it profibus, profinet or Hart-IP). The adapter should connect to a profibus/profinet/Hart-IP network to retreive data from the devices. I didn't need to go into the details of the frames of these protocols. I simply need some software that it can catch the received frames on the network and provide the tags/values that are transported by these frames
Thank you in advance for you reply
Best regards


Hello again momo1510:


I am glad you think I can be of help. I really hope I can help you but since you have been providing your requirements bit by bit, I fear I may have not been able to provide proper advice. Let's see by this iteration.

For example, now you mention Hart-IP which very different from HART, even though in the very high layers of the protocol they do share some similarities.

OK, first of all when you say you need to make an adapter do you mean you need to convert commands from a Profibus/Profinet/Hart-IP master into something else, like a serial proprietary interface?

In the case of Profibus DP you cannot avoid the fact that you will need a special ASIC for Profibus DP, you will need this special ASIC to be implemented in a board with the correct RS845 driver (equivalent to what is known as the PHY) with proper optical isolators and so on, and have this ASIC connected to a microcontroller with flash, memory and other accessories. And this is just the hardware. Then you need to implement the firmware that configures the ASIC and implements the Profibus DP communication services and them implement the profile of whatever device you want to make. This requires that you develop the GSD file and if you want to sell this you will need to pass conformance test with a PI acreditted laboratory (PI is Profibus Profinet International). What I summarized in this paragraph is at least US$ 100K investment, if you include all the conformance test cost and purchasing of all the equipment needed for development, licenses and salaries for developers and so on, and that is if the manager of the project knows about Profibus. That means that you will need to sell a lot of your devices in order for the investment to have a positive return. If what you need to do is for a limited number of devices, there are in the market some gateways which have a serial interface with an easy protocol such as Modbus RTU, and on the other side Profibus DP. There are also some with Profinet device functionality and as for Hart-IP I am not sure; I would need to investigate. Such kind of gateways may cost some US$ 400 each, but you need only to configure them and they are already conformant so you need not go through conformance testing. If your device will be produced in small quantities, I would advice you find a supplier of gateways close to your area who can give you good support.

For Profinet there are communication stacks but they are not free. What kind of computer do you want to use for this adapter? In the case of Profinet and Hart-IP the physical layer is Ethernet, which makes the hardware easier if you are OK with commercial grade hardware. Profinet has some options such as RT (real-time) and media redundancy protocol (MRP) which are widely accepted and for such functionalities a commercial microprocessor with single MAC (media access controller) will not do. In this case you are in the same problem as Profibus in that you need special hardware.

In case commercial Ethernet interface is OK, you still need an RTOS, socket library and a proper communication stack. There are some free stuff in Githubs and what not, but since they are free they are not tested and they are not current. You would need to have a very deep understanding of socket technology and Profinet/Hart-IP technology to get this to work properly.

Again, if the number of adapters you need is small, it is better you pay to a proper supplier and buy the right gateway. the reason these gateways cost US$ 400 or so each is because there is a lot of effort put in their development, sales distribution and support of the product. The development of these kind of communication interface is no trivial undertaking.
 

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