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Old August 14th, 2015, 01:10 PM   #16
Geospark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by einnh
I realize this is slightly off-topic...
einnh,

I would not say you are off topic at all. Any feedback from users as to which software currently works with which Operating System is very pertinent to readers trying to gauge whether similar software will likely work OK with Windows 10 or not. Especially references to Windows 8, as it is the predecessor to Windows 10.

The important thing to remember in all of this is the word "officially".

Where Rockwell have officially tested a specific piece of Rockwell software, against a specific edition of a Windows Operating System, and it performed at an acceptable level, then they will officially say that it is "Compatible" with that edition of that OS.

Where Rockwell have officially tested a specific piece of Rockwell software, against a specific edition of a Windows Operating System, and it has performed at an acceptable level, but with some issues or exceptions, then they will officially say that it "May be Compatible" with that edition of that OS, or they might say it is "Compatible" but with exception(s).

Where Rockwell have officially tested a specific piece of Rockwell software, against a specific edition of a Windows Operating System, and it has not performed at an acceptable level, for whatever reason, then they will officially say that it is "Not Compatible" with that edition of that OS.

Where Rockwell have not officially tested a specific piece of Rockwell software, against a specific edition of a Windows Operating System, and they unofficially know it performs at an acceptable level, or they have no evidence to the contrary, then they will officially say that there are "No known issues or dependencies" with that edition of that OS.

For whatever reasons, when they have officially tested and found incompatibility issues for a specific software environment, they will not officially support the use of that specific software environment. These reasons are usually due to a serious enough performance related issue to warrant not supporting it. It does not necessarily mean the software will not install, load up and operate, but more that there is a particular software feature that does not work, or the software crashes under certain circumstances, or when used with certain other third party software products within that environment, etc.

As I said, official compatibility is not a hard and fast rule. Operating System environments can differ from user to user, system to system. Where Rockwell have not performed official testing, then it is user feedback, such as yours rdrast, that will really provide the compatibility results, especially for the somewhat older versions of software that Rockwell are most likely not going to perform official testing against the latest OS.

In the main, they are just covering their bases, I guess. If a user contacts them saying their software is crashing, or the like, and they have not officially rubber stamped that particular software environment, then in most cases they will advise the user to implement virtualization with an older compatible OS.


A little ramble...

Rockwell have no real control over Operating Systems and their architecture, which Windows develops, no more than they have control over the processing hardware upon which they are run, of which Intel and the like develops.

The computer software and hardware market moves along at a pace far greater than the automation world does. The environment in which our automation products and applications are run and maintained is ever evolving. New Operating Systems tend to be biennial, or thereabouts. They are much aligned with the cadence of newer processor chips or enhancements which have long been predicted to occur every 2 years, according to Moore's Law. In more recent years, the average major chip or enhancement release had been around every 18 months, according to Intel, with this having slowed to around every 2-2.5 years since around 2012.

Major computer hardware and peripheral developments and releases tend to be somewhat slower. But when they happen, they can create huge headaches for automation product developers and manufacturers. I would mention the serial port once again, or lack of, as a major shift in the computing world which forced many in the automation world to redesign much of their newer hardware to compensate or keep up. Another example would be if the computing world, at some point in the future, develops a successor to the expectedly long term Ethernet standard. This would pose another huge headache for automation product developers and manufacturers. It is really out of their hands.

Realistically, automation software developers cannot be expected to rewrite older versions of software and firmware to support each successively new Operating System and processor architecture. In this regard, virtualization has really been their saviour in all of this.

My point being that as they have no direct control over the ever changing environment in which their software products must be used, then they must always be playing catch-up to try and reach or exceed the current computing standards. Whether previous or existing software products will work or not in these new and unchartered waters, will be highly variable from user to user, and so it tends to be a case of "suck it and see" a lot of the time. It is these interim periods of uncertainty, such as this thread has highlighted, in which we tend to feel somewhat unsure about the future of our past, but currently invaluable, software products.

Automation has always been driven by the need to make things easier to do, yet the methods used to do those same things easier are driven by the need to conform to current technological standards, which is not always so easy to do.

In short, in this line of work we often have to put a lot in to get a little out. It is our pains that yield their reward.

"All honest industry has a reward, and all care and pain borne for a good object bring comfort and content."

The money is just a bonus, right?

Regards,
George
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Last edited by Geospark; August 14th, 2015 at 01:14 PM.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 01:10 PM   #17
Geospark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrast
...everything seems pretty normal with one odd exception: On none of my Windows 10 boxes, can I drill down in RSLinx to get to anything connected over DH+. (ENBT->DHRIO->PLC5 for example). I can drill down and browse ControlNet, even DeviceNet, but not DHRIO. This is with Linx 3.6.
Compatibility between RSLinx Classic and Windows 10 is not yet available on their product comparison webpage. All I can say on that one my friend is that RSLinx Classic v3.60 is officially supported on all editions of the Windows 7 Operating System, but it is not officially supported on any of the editions of the Windows 8/8.1 Operating System. So I would take that to imply that it is possibly also not supported on any edition of the Windows 10 Operating System.

Why RSLinx Classic v3.60 is not compatible with Windows 8/8.1, I am not sure without further investigation, but they must have a good reason to say it is not. Unless you have used this version of RSLinx Classic in a Windows 8/8.1 environment and the same browse works, or someone else can confirm it works for them, then it is possible that you are experiencing one of possibly many anomalies within such an environment?

RSLinx Classic v3.70, or newer support all editions of the Windows 8/8.1 Operating System, except for Windows 8 Home Edition 32-Bit and 64-Bit. So I would take this to imply that v3.70, or newer is possibly supported on some, if not all editions of the Windows 10 Operating System.

It's hard to say for certain, but I would definitely recommend using the very latest RSLinx Classic version with Windows 10 (v3.73.00 at the time of writing).

Regards,
George
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Old August 15th, 2015, 06:34 AM   #18
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I have two desktops I upgraded to Windows 10PRO. The first one runs all families & versions of RSLogix & Factory Talk fine, and other PLC programs I have on it.

On the second computer I upgraded: Factory Talk refuses to run, it pop's up that it couldn't start Factory Talk Service repeatedly, I did a repair of installation from the latest RSL5000 version, and uninstalled it & did a reinstall from that latest version. Now about half the time I can open a RSLogix program (Linx, 5, 500 or 5000) but half the time it errors, cant get the license server started in FT Manager when I "Refresh", opens the programs with the "Not Properly Activated - 7 Days Till Death" message.

50% success rate?
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Old August 17th, 2015, 07:57 AM   #19
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After upgrading my laptop to Windows 10 PRO, I was getting an error window when starting RSLogix 5000 "There was an error logging onto the Security Server." I downloaded the latest FactoryTalk Services installer, 2.73.00, and reinstalled it. Seems to have cleared everything up.

Amazingly, everything seems to be working fine now. Virtual machines all running smooth, etc. etc.
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Old September 14th, 2015, 09:10 PM   #20
BachPhi
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Right click properties and change to run comptaible to windows 7.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 04:16 AM   #21
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I am currently testing FactoryTalk 5.1 using Windows10 Pro x86 (32bit).
It is running without any problems. Makes my client able to upgrade hardware (PCs) without buying new licenses.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 04:31 AM   #22
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I upgraded the FT to the new version on 2 Windows 10 Pro computers & immediately had problems, nothing would start - kept getting the error about Security Server.

Tech Supp said their software was NOT compatible with Win10 at all!

Had to uninstall FT & reinstall it using a RS5000 installation on both systems & now it works fine on Win10Pro.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 04:50 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinddhindsa View Post
There are very less chances for its compatibility with windows 10.
From my experience windows XP was the best OS for using the industrial softwares for automation engineers.
Well, from my experience, DOS was, but I'm not still using it.

All of the Rockwell software that works on windows 7 works on Windows 10 for me. The ONLY piece of software I have that has issues with Windows 10 happens to be Red Lion's Crimson, and that is because their bloody splash screen doesn't play nice with a tablet.

Just be aware that since Rockwell want's to take over your computer, you are best uninstalling all RS first, doing the upgrade, and then re-installing it so that keys, apps, and data go to the proper 'new' locations for Win 10.

Software publishers that insist on using blocking splash screens for every program should be shot. There is absolutely no reason to waste time and resources with what amounts to a self-aggrandizing advert. Seriously, to get there, I must have started the software, so I already know what it is.
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Last edited by rdrast; December 11th, 2015 at 04:52 AM.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 06:03 AM   #24
LarsKBH
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Probably a part of Rockwell business (money) to declare a software version incompatible with newer OS versions. Even if it works.
For now FTVSE5.1 is running but only as 32bit (x86), When installing in x64 the installation frooze during installation of the Service platform.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 06:19 AM   #25
rdrast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsKBH View Post
Probably a part of Rockwell business (money) to declare a software version incompatible with newer OS versions. Even if it works.
For now FTVSE5.1 is running but only as 32bit (x86), When installing in x64 the installation frooze during installation of the Service platform.
/sigh. You are running software from 10 years ago, and complaining that it isn't compatible with current OS's.
That is your problem. It is nothing about the money, FTView 5 was targetted for Windows 2000. This is 2015. Sorry, this is your issue, not Rockwell's.

I just dumped all of my Win 2K/Server 2003 licenses, since nothing here is left that requires those OS builds, but up until two months ago, I did, so I kept licenses. I still have 11 licenses for XP just to maintain the few systems that still require XP.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 11:34 AM   #26
Geospark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsKBH
Probably a part of Rockwell business (money) to declare a software version incompatible with newer OS versions...
LarsKBH,

How is declaring that such an old piece of software is not compatible under a modern OS such a good financial marketing strategy? If a customer needs legacy software support that works then it would be in their (Rockwell's) interest if it can operate on these newer platforms. It not working creates headaches for them. They pride themselves on their product's longevity, where it exists.

Officially saying it is not compatible does not mean it will not work. It just means they know of some feature that doesn't work or particular environment setup where it did not perform adequately. If you contact them looking for support on an unsupported setup then they will not waste time trying to get it working. They will advise you to use virtualization as a viable option to continuing to use there older software products. They are not telling you to purchase something new. Virtualization makes the likes of VMware money, not Rockwell. But it is done in an effort to support, as best they can, customers that still have a requirement for legacy hardware and related software products.

This is part of what I was explaining earlier (if you've read it?). They cannot be expected to keep trying to rewrite older versions of software to work within these newer environments. That is definitely not a financially viable option. So they push customers toward virtual platforms in an effort to keep their older and still valuable software products alive.

Now, in the case of FactoryTalk View Studio and legacy equipment, you can of course use the newer versions of software to create and work with older application versions. But to upgrade to those newer versions you must have a Support Contract. You are using ME v5.10 in Windows 10. This would suggest to me that you do not have a Support Contract or else you would be using the more likely compatible ME v7 or v8?

Maybe this is where your real gripe is? Having to pay to get an upgrade?

But that topic belongs and has lived in many another thread.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsKBH
...For now FTVSE5.1 is running but only as 32bit (x86), When installing in x64 the installation frooze during installation of the Service platform.
Q: Is FactoryTalk View ME v5.10 Officially supported in Windows 10?

A: Most definitely not.

It has not been Officially supported since Windows XP Pro SP3.

I would be thankful if it works at all under the 32-bit Edition of Windows 10.

I feel you are expecting too much of them and thus thinking too little of them.

Regards,
George

I've just spliced this together from the Product Compatibility website...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FTVME5.10_&_Win10.jpg (50.1 KB, 405 views)
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Old January 29th, 2016, 11:07 AM   #27
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I just got off the phone to Rockwell tech connect support (29Jan2016) and was told the latest RSLogix now called designer which will be released this year is the only one certified as windows 10 compatible. anything from RSLogix v26 and older will not be supported if you run under windows 10 and have issues, even under windows 7 compatibility mode they will not help you.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 05:18 PM   #28
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Official name or moniker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cocsbob
I just got off the phone to Rockwell tech connect support (29Jan2016) and was told the latest RSLogix now called designer which will be released this year is the only one certified as windows 10 compatible. anything from RSLogix v26 and older will not be supported if you run under windows 10 and have issues, even under windows 7 compatibility mode they will not help you...
Get it right!...It's now officially called "Logix Designer". It's not a nickname!

It really has been a struggle for this product to be referred to by its proper name.

I keep seeing threads and posts here referring to this product as anything from still "RSLogix 5000", "Studio 5000", "Studio Designer", "RSLogix Designer" and "Designer".

Logix controllers using firmware revision 21, or later, must be programmed using Logix Designer. Logix Designer is one component of the Studio 5000 "suite" of products, which currently only includes Logix Designer and View Designer (used for the latest PanelView 5000 range).

Often, both these components may also be referred to as Studio 5000 Logix Designer and Studio 5000 View Designer.

So, you are saying that you have been informed that Logix Designer v26 and older are not, and will not be made officially compatible with Windows 10 and that the next released version of Logix Designer, which I assume will be 29, will be officially compatible with Windows 10.

OK, but what about the already released versions 27 and 28?

Your statement reads as thought versions 27 and 28 don't even exist yet or else you don't realise that they do?

It would be hard to say, yet, if either or both v27 and v28 will be supported, but going on what you've been told they probably will not? We'll have to wait and see.

The last I had heard (in December) was that information on the official support for products with Windows 10 was due around June 2016...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockwell Automation
Windows 10 Home and Professional Edition -

Support for most products is targeted for June 2016 and will typically include Professional Edition. However, some products will provide support sooner.
This was in response to a question I'd asked about when would Windows 10 compatibility start to be seen on their Product Compatability website. It still isn't there.

I'm sure over the coming months we'll start to see it creep in with the release of newer product versions.

Note: I am not saying that the above versions of Logix Designer cannot be installed under Windows 10 or that, upon installation, they will not function correctly. I/we are specifically referring to "official" support of a Rockwell Software product under a Windows 10 Operating System.

By all means keep posting cases where products do appear to be functioning correctly under Windows 10.

Regards,
George
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Old January 31st, 2016, 08:33 PM   #29
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I really havent had any problems between RS and Win10. it all works with 1 exception and I think its because I have a 4K display. Only studio5000 does this. all the other software works beautifully. In studio the top bar icons are tiny almost hard to tell what they are...and also I can see the tabs for the instructions but no instructions. logix5000,500,5 no issues at all
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Old February 1st, 2016, 09:47 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark View Post
OK, but what about the already released versions 27 and 28?

Your statement reads as thought versions 27 and 28 don't even exist yet or else you don't realise that they do?

It would be hard to say, yet, if either or both v27 and v28 will be supported, but going on what you've been told they probably will not? We'll have to wait and see.

The last I had heard (in December) was that information on the official support for products with Windows 10 was due around June 2016...

George
it was my understanding v29, due out later this year, will be the only version "officially" windows 10 supported. he also said one could run previous versions under compatibility mode but if you have issues you are on your own, again this was from the tech I talked to.

I have 40 controllers I will need to replace going from L61 to L71 because of this windows 10 fiasco. oh joy, oh fun. I can keep my IT department at bay for a couple of years as MS won't stop extended support for Win7 until Jan2020. I also have to upgrade security camera, card reader and VMWare software because of Win10. what a PITA.

edit:there are no v28 release notes because its identical to v27 except for list of bugs, v27 release notes only shows support for Win8.1

Last edited by cocsbob; February 1st, 2016 at 10:14 AM.
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