Scada

bitmonkey

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Oct 2015
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So, HE WHO MUST BE OBEYED wants me to dip my toe into the SCADA pool. I know what it is, I know what it does, but I'm not sure how to implement it. I tried a quick google search, but mostly all I'm finding is a bunch of pushy salesmen.
I want to start with something small and simple and CHEAP, of course. I want to be able to take either a 0-10V or 4-20mA signal from a frequency drive output and display it on a computer screen in real time and archive the data for a period of months.
I'd be willing to take some training, so long as it's not a waste of time and money, but where to even start?
 
Ignition (NOT CHEAP), they have a 100% full working demo, tons of video, webinars, and a great forum, just like this group.
 
Obviously there will be software involved. What I'm more interested in learning is how to convert that speed signal into something the software can use. Is a plc the best way to do that? Aren't there other cheaper devices that will do the same thing without signing a contract to send that data to the cloud? We don't need that.
 
Obviously there will be software involved. What I'm more interested in learning is how to convert that speed signal into something the software can use. Is a plc the best way to do that? Aren't there other cheaper devices that will do the same thing without signing a contract to send that data to the cloud? We don't need that.

I'd say make the PLC do the work.

What PLC's are you working with?
 
The drives we want to monitor aren't connected to a plc.

EDIT: I have Allen Bradley RSL500 and 5000 software already. So if I have to buy a PLC, I will probably go that route. I'm just trying to keep things simple and cheap.
 
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I have found that nothing is cheap when it comes to industrial technology. Have you considered a chart recorder? We use both paper and paperless chart recorders in our facility. Yokogawa has a setup with the paperless recorder that logs data for us and sends us a monthly report. We also have remote real time access to the data over ethernet with the Smartdac+ software
 
It doesn't sound like the OP has a PLC yet?

There are several options there that are affordable, with free software. My choice would be a Unitronics PLC with built in HMI. Once you have your signals connected to the PLC you need to scale to useful numbers and set up a suitable communications protocol. Modbus TCP is a good place to start.

SCADA side... I think B SCADA is free. Havent used it though.

Advanced HMI is free but is a steep learning curve if you're not a programmer.

Everything else... upwards of $3k to get started.
 
So, HE WHO MUST BE OBEYED wants me to dip my toe into the SCADA pool. I know what it is, I know what it does, but I'm not sure how to implement it. I tried a quick google search, but mostly all I'm finding is a bunch of pushy salesmen.
I want to start with something small and simple and CHEAP, of course. I want to be able to take either a 0-10V or 4-20mA signal from a frequency drive output and display it on a computer screen in real time and archive the data for a period of months.
I'd be willing to take some training, so long as it's not a waste of time and money, but where to even start?


So let's break this down into usable chunks:

"I want to be able to take either a 0-10V or 4-20mA signal from a frequency drive output". Lots of choices of where to go with this, but because of the next steps, I'd say use a PLC. You already have RSL500 (and 5000) so to start out small, you can use a ML1100; inexpensive and ready to go with your RSL500.


"... and display it on a computer screen in real time...". This can technically be done by "rolling your own" GUI (Graphical User Interface) IF you are already very adept at that sort of thing. If not, the learning curve would kill you. So you need a software package. At the very basic level, all you need for this is an "HMI" (Human Machine Interface) software package. In sticking with a Rockwell theme, that would be something like FactoryTalk View. That runs on your PC and will have the necessary tools to create the graphics on a screen for displaying what you want to see, as well as a way to look at the PLC and extrac info from it, using what's called "tags" for the data points you want to watch (or control).


"... and archive the data for a period of months." That becomes a function of the computer. At a very basic level, a good HMI package like FTV will be able to export data to a .csv file that you can then import into something like Excel to create a spreadsheet of the collected data. There are more complex and functional software packages that you can add onto the HMI, called "Historians" that automate that for you, but for one tag on one drive, that becomes overkill.


But what is your long range goal here? "SCADA" (Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition) implies, by definition, supervisory and control functionality, meaning someone wants to sit in an office and not only watch what is happening on a plant or system wide basis, but make decision about it, either automatically as a process control function, or semi-automatically where humans make the decisions from afar and they are executed at the local machine. If that's the overall goal of "HWMBO", then you will want to make sure you use something scalable, meaning you are going to start out small, but will want to eventually increase the S and C functionality. So the cheapest things you can get will likely limit your eventual capabilities. Again, since you already have one of the more expensive aspects, the A-B PLC programming software, I'd consider sticking to that path for upgrading. FTV Machine Edition (ME) is a lower cost "entry level" HMI with enough capability to take you fairly far with one system to start out, then it can be expanded into what's called a "Site Edition" (SE) version as you expand.



Lot's of people will argue about this because they are used to and like other products, and frankly few companies survive that make absolute ****, so pretty much anything you use will be pretty good. But again, familiarity is important when starting out and if there is a larger long term growth plan for this, you want to take that into consideration.
 
Depending on the drive the simplest way would be to add a network card tot he drive
and get a driver compatible with he drive.
you can download Net studio Community for free.
You can get distributable Modbus drive for about $500
With some drive they have a built in RS485 port you don't even need a network card.
that's as cheap and simple as it gets
you will have a learning curve with the Net studio but you expected that anyway
 
The phrase “cheap comes out expensive” comes to mind and I’ve seen it come true far more times than I can count in the past 20+ years working in this industry. For someone in your position, not have any practical experience working with industrial automation equipment the first thing I would do is lose the concept of “cheap”. That’s not to say you must go “expensive” but going cheap usually means going with something of lower quality and/or not very well known. One advantage of going with Allen Bradley is everybody knows somebody who knows Allen Bradley (you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting someone who’s worked with it). The obvious advantage of that is its not difficult to find companies and/or consultants who can help you now and in the future. The “not so obvious” advantage is the more common something is the easier it is to get accurate information about it I.E. you’re less likely to get taken down a path of failure. This blog site is an excellent example. Ask a question about RSLogix 500/5000 (or Studio 5000), or a MicroLogix 1100 and you will get a lot of people who know those products backwards and forwards. Ask a question about, well let’s be truthful here, anything but Allen Bradley (with exceptions) and you will get a lot less people who can help (I’m not starting, nor will I reply to any comments about the ups and downs of AB or comparisons with other products. There are other options that are quality products, I’m just making a point about my opinion). When something is that well known it says something. One, the majority opinion tends to be accurate and two, there must be something good about it. Something doesn’t become that common place if it isn’t any good.
So, kinda a winded answer but long and short is jraef makes some great points and while he’s not talking about the cheapest options he is talking about probably the most practical give what it sounds like you are looking for.
 

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