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Unread October 10th, 2019, 10:53 PM   #1
fei
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SCADA SYSTEM Experts Suggestion

Hello Smart People, I need some expert's suggestion about the SCADA system I am going to design for the client.

The customer has 55 machines and they all within 100-meter distance range, 20 machines out of 55 use Micrologix 1400 controller, another 20 machines out of 55 use CompactLogix 1769-L24ER, and 10 machines out of 55 use CompactLogix 5380.

So far, my design is to use 2 master ControlLogix 1756-L73 and 1756-EN2T with two managed layer 3 Moxa switches (the model # is ICS-G7852A) to isolate the data traffic so that all machines can be connected to the central network.


However, I worry about the capability of how many Micrologix 1400 a control Logix 1756-L73 can handle. In-person, I have no experience with such a big SCADA system in the past.

So, My plan is to use two ControlLogix Master With Managed Layer 3 Switches within the central location of all 55 machines, one master CPU is used to handle all Micrologix 1400 slave stations and the other one is used to handle all compactlogix slave stations.

I need to know if my design can be successful? if it is not, I need some experts suggestion about how to approach, I don't mind to use 4-5 master stations.

Thank you all smart people here
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Unread October 11th, 2019, 12:04 AM   #2
GaryS
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I would avoid using a PLC of any kind as a master to collect data or as go between for a SCADA system
I would look at the Ingear drivers https://www.ingeardrivers.com/
the NET.Logix driver for the Compact and control Logix Controllers
and the AB.Link driver for the Micrologix 1400 controllers
they both can run on the same pc
then use Microsoft NET.Studio to communicate writ a simple poling app to read the data on a timed bases both programs can read and write data to the processors directly
you can customize the apps to meet your needs
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Unread October 11th, 2019, 12:40 AM   #3
cardosocea
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Why have two PLC's gathering data instead of having the SCADA poll the data from the PLC's directly and beef up the networking instead?
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Unread October 11th, 2019, 02:14 AM   #4
JesperMP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fei View Post
[..] to isolate the data traffic so that all machines can be connected to the central network.
Router(s), possibly NAT router(s) will do the job.
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Unread October 11th, 2019, 07:29 AM   #5
diat150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fei View Post

So far, my design is to use 2 master ControlLogix 1756-L73 and 1756-EN2T with two managed layer 3 Moxa switches (the model # is ICS-G7852A) to isolate the data traffic so that all machines can be connected to the central network.


However, I worry about the capability of how many Micrologix 1400 a control Logix 1756-L73 can handle. In-person, I have no experience with such a big SCADA system in the past.

So, My plan is to use two ControlLogix Master With Managed Layer 3 Switches within the central location of all 55 machines, one master CPU is used to handle all Micrologix 1400 slave stations and the other one is used to handle all compactlogix slave stations.

I need to know if my design can be successful? if it is not, I need some experts suggestion about how to approach, I don't mind to use 4-5 master stations.

Thank you all smart people here

dont do this. all you will be doing is creating an expensive headache for your or whoever follows behind you. Just design a scada system that will communicate to each device individually.
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Unread October 11th, 2019, 05:20 PM   #6
damica1
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I think you owe it to yourself and your customer to look at Ignition!!
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Unread October 11th, 2019, 05:27 PM   #7
rupej
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I think you owe it to yourself and your customer to look at Ignition!!
Sounds like an ignition project if there ever was one. Will be cheaper than 2 CLXs also.
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Unread October 11th, 2019, 08:56 PM   #8
Tnorman
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Seriously look at Ignition! Relatively low cost. They allow a full demo version so you can you around it without buying it.

Then install NAT modules on the equipment that are not on the plant network. Rockwell has a few out there that are great to use.
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Unread October 11th, 2019, 10:05 PM   #9
fei
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Hi Gary:
Your suggestion is very interested in me, but I would like to know how to use ingear drivers to poll data from each individual plc processor? is the NET.driver can poll data from each individual IP of the CPU?
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Unread October 11th, 2019, 10:15 PM   #10
fei
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Originally Posted by damica1 View Post
I think you owe it to yourself and your customer to look at Ignition!!
What software or system I shall have for the ignition?
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Unread October 11th, 2019, 10:16 PM   #11
fei
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Originally Posted by Tnorman View Post
Seriously look at Ignition! Relatively low cost. They allow a full demo version so you can you around it without buying it.

Then install NAT modules on the equipment that are not on the plant network. Rockwell has a few out there that are great to use.
Do you have link or any sample Ignition Project I can get idea? NAT modules?
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Unread October 12th, 2019, 12:51 AM   #12
sigmadelta
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https://inductiveautomation.com/ignition/
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Unread October 12th, 2019, 03:05 AM   #13
parky
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May not be what you need but using an OPC server like Kepware might be the answer, these have multiple drivers (if you buy the suite cheapest option for multiple types of PLC) I have used this before & found it faultless. some time ago I spoke to Kepware as I was worried that the amount of data was considerable, however they assured me that they had systems out there with over a million tags. I found that on the system I did IFix drivers were difficult to configure so we plumped for kepware, again you can download a trial that will run for 2 hours to test the functionality, just re-start it for another 2 hours.
Tip: any system you use try to set the update rate for tags based on how often you need to update, having all tags update at a rate of 100ms etc. means heavy traffic whereas some tags may only need to be updated in tens of seconds or even minutes. Depending on the system you choose some Scada systems allow you to disable a range of tags until another tag is true to enable the data. I have used this in an application that needed to read 4,000 tags on recipe download, this only occurred a few times a day so the tag scan was only enabled for this period. It was actually more complicated as I also disabled other tags while recipe download was in operation. But careful thought is needed to ensure that disabling tags did not interfere with data that was required for the process at that time.
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Unread October 12th, 2019, 08:01 AM   #14
the_msp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fei View Post
Do you have link or any sample Ignition Project I can get idea? NAT modules?
Go on their website and do schedule a demo.

Or you can download their demo project (or even a VM ware image of it already all set up).

NAT is Network Address Translation, e.g. it allows a 192.168.1.1 device to talk to 10.1.1.1 machines
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