What is Schneider Electric's Ethernet TCP/IP? Same as ODVA EtherNet/IP?

id10t_error · Feb 19, 2021

Is Schneider Electric's Ethernet TCP/IP protocol implementing ODVA's EtherNet/IP and is this Interoperable to Rockwells EtherNet/IP?

We have a one-off M580 controller and can we message or produce/consume to this M580 processor from Control/Compact Logix? Can we select an EtherNet/IP Allen Bradley driver on a 3rd party HMI to display values from the M580?

Check out page 17 of this document https://www.se.com/ww/resources/sites/SCHNEIDER_ELECTRIC/content/live/FAQS/409000/FA409179/en_US/ControlLogix%20%20M580%20v.2.pdf

Thanks for all your help in advance.

lfe · Feb 19, 2021

TCP/IP is not a protocol, it's a transport layer, TCP/IP connects a client to a server and allows bytes to be sent and received in both directions but then they need a protocol and Ethernet/IP* is one of the most used.

Modbus TCP would be another protocol that also works over TCP/IP

* Ethernet/IP Explicit messasing works over TCP/IP instead Ethernet/IP Implicit messasing works over UDP

id10t_error · Feb 19, 2021

TCP/IP is not a protocol, it's a transport layer, TCP/IP connects a client to a server and allows bytes to be sent and received in both directions but then they need a protocol and Ethernet/IP* is one of the most used.

Modbus TCP would be another protocol that also works over TCP/IP

* Ethernet/IP Explicit messasing works over TCP/IP instead Ethernet/IP Implicit messasing works over UDP

100%, but it seems EthernetTCP/IP is what they are calling their Tag-based IP protocol, or what is the Schenider Electric tag-based IP protocol called?

LXM32M
Ethernet TCP/IP Module (Protocol EtherNet/IP)
Fieldbus manual

Thanks

lfe · Feb 19, 2021

There are several protocols called Ethernet/IP,

Tag based one uses explicit messasing and is applied to exchange data from PLC with SCADA/HMI or PLC with PLC.

Ethernet/IP implicit messasing is used for communication with remote I/O modules and other field devices, in this case the client(master) is called Scanner and the server(slave) Adapter

AB also calls Ethernet/IP to a protocol to communicate with Micrologix/PLC families, it is the old DF1 serial protocol encapsulated in Ethernet/IP packets.

BobB · Feb 19, 2021

Schneider have Ethernet I/P. Have used it before. Contact your rep.

chud · Feb 19, 2021

need to know what hardware you have in place. Can make everyones life easier

TCP/IP is a hardware layer not a software protocol. Hence LFE response

Ethernet tcp/ip could mean a few things.
Normally Schneider tcp/ip would mean Modbus...but it could mean anything these days.
Well not anything....but it would make the options more...Hence my original question

Thomas_v2 · Feb 19, 2021

chud said:
TCP/IP is a hardware layer not a software protocol

No, layer 1 is the physical layer, which seems to be hardware but is also in most parts done in software, but in most cases you can't access all layers when you've got an OS like Windows or Linux on top.

Similar in Windows with the standard winsocks the layer you get access is on top of IP, but with tools like WinPCAP/Npcap you get easy access to lower layers to create e.g. MAC based protocols.

id10t_error · Feb 19, 2021

The processor is an M580 (BMEP584040). The crappy reps/sales said the m580 processor talked over the "Ethernet (Space) TCP/IP" communication protocol and that it was tag-biased. The rep even went as far as to make sure I put a space after ethernet. I assumed "Ethernet (Space) TCP/IP" was poorly trademarked just like how EtherNet/IP™ is poorly named.

Modbus/TCP is addressed biased... So a modern M580 processor, supporting UDT definitions, is forced to translate tags to addresses and then communicate over Modbus/TCP? That can not be right...

If the M580 can send tag-based data over regular ethernet, is the protocol called EtherNet/IP™ or is it called something different?

chud · Feb 19, 2021

Thomas_v2 said:
No, layer 1 is the physical layer, which seems to be hardware but is also in most parts done in software, but in most cases you can't access all layers when you've got an OS like Windows or Linux on top.

Similar in Windows with the standard winsocks the layer you get access is on top of IP, but with tools like WinPCAP/Npcap you get easy access to lower layers to create e.g. MAC based protocols.

This response is way pc-based over my head. I am a field engineer and not even going to try and sound more clever with a response to winsocks nor windsocks based systems....

Back to the original issue.
Ethernet Ip is not Modbus TCp/IP. Some systems just state Ethernet which covers both
Rightly as you pointed out. Schneider can talk just as most PLC companies any comms. But according to me Ethernet Ip is not native. Normally Mod tcp/ip is native. But then again I havent worked with a lot of m580 plcs......Ethernet Ip you just have to add a NOC card...

chud · Feb 19, 2021

What 3rd paty hmi are you talking about?

id10t_error · Feb 19, 2021

I'm finding out what my disconnection is... the M580's top rj45 port is for programming and diagnostics. The bottom two rj45 ports are for IO expansion. A separate communication card is needed for HMI's and SCADA... The separate communication card can either be EtherNet/IP or Modbus/TCP.

id10t_error · Feb 19, 2021

Coming from Rockwell Control/Compact logix, you can Program, Read/Write tags and browse remote chassis from any ethernet port. Even on remote chassis, or remote chassis from a remote chassis.

What is Schneider Electric's Ethernet TCP/IP? Same as ODVA EtherNet/IP?

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