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Old February 14th, 2020, 12:41 PM   #1
Tomo453
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Transducer conflicts

Hello, I have recently received notification that MTS will soon (3-6 months) only sell Gen 5 (Series 5) Temposonic R series transducers. We have over 50 of these on an automation line for positioning various axes. It has been indicated that the Gen 5 sensors are not backward compatible and all Gen 4 sensors would have to be replaced with Gen 5 sensors at the first installation of a single Gen 5 sensor in any given network. It appears that there is no way to upgrade the firmware on the old sensors. Has anyone dealt with this migration or situation. Seems like an expensive re-pot considering we will have an automation line and shelf full of Gen 4 sensors when the first Gen 5 sensor will have to go in.
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Old February 14th, 2020, 12:48 PM   #2
bright676
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I would just replace them as they fail, You said that you have 50+ of them in your line, how many do you have for back-ups?
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Old February 14th, 2020, 02:39 PM   #3
Tomo453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bright676 View Post
I would just replace them as they fail, You said that you have 50+ of them in your line, how many do you have for back-ups?
I have ten gen 4 sensors on the shelf. There are 6 configurations and we have multiples of the ones that commonly fail. The new gen 5 sensors will not work in the same network as the gen 4 sensors perhaps due to some polling protocol change. We have two rings on this line of 25 sensors. The first time a gen 5 would have to go in, all sensors in that ring would have to be upgraded to gen 5. I was hoping someone had found a way to flash the new firmware to the old sensor, but I am beginning to believe that the electronics have change so much between the generations that this is not possible. So, do we migrate now or do we stock up on gen 4 sensors while they last. Either way we will end up with some unused gen 4 sensors and 50 used gen 4 sensors. Ebay offerings maybe?
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Old February 14th, 2020, 03:36 PM   #4
Ken Roach
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Which network protocol does your system use ?

The classic R-series supports

PowerLink
EtherNet/IP
ProfiNet
EtherCAT
SSI
CANBus
ProfiBus DP
Analog
DeviceNet

The newest R-Series V generation supports:

PowerLink
EtherNet/IP
ProfiNet
SSI


Is the issue something different in one of those Ethernet protocol implementations, or just discontinuation of the network protocol you use ?
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Old February 17th, 2020, 10:19 AM   #5
Tomo453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Roach View Post
Which network protocol does your system use ?

The classic R-series supports

PowerLink
EtherNet/IP
ProfiNet
EtherCAT
SSI
CANBus
ProfiBus DP
Analog
DeviceNet

The newest R-Series V generation supports:

PowerLink
EtherNet/IP
ProfiNet
SSI


Is the issue something different in one of those Ethernet protocol implementations, or just discontinuation of the network protocol you use ?
It is Ethernet/IP. I did contact tech support at MTS and they indicated that I would not be able to flash any new Firmware to the old devices. The reason that was given was that the electronics are too disparate, and no further reason was given on our all be it short conversation. It does say in the literature for the Gen 5 sensors that they are backward compatible for whatever that means. Tech support was also not forthcoming as to the possibility of they themselves flashing new firmware to the old devices. I am sure they would rather sell new transducers. I have sent a more detailed inquiry to MTS in writing concerning this. Perhaps I will get a better explanation and or solution. This will be a fairly expensive migration, and the salt in the wound is the MRO stock on the shelf. These sensors are operation critical so we had to stock quite a few. We have 3-6 months to come up with a plan, so that helps. The changeover could be done in one shift, but production will have to be down. Thanks everyone for the responses.

Last edited by Tomo453; February 17th, 2020 at 10:23 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old February 14th, 2020, 05:46 PM   #6
Peter Nachtwey
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What about the basic start-stop?
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Old February 18th, 2020, 08:24 AM   #7
JohnCalderwood
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Tomo453, can you send me that original communication from MTS?
Having read your posts, it concerns me as we have a number of these on site, some older than others, but we always got them through a third-party.
I do not know enough about them to compare with your experience, but I know we changed some out about 3 years ago due to a system upgrade. I look in my stock listing, and like you, we have a good quantity in case of failure....

Even if they listed affected part numbers, that would help...
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Old February 18th, 2020, 12:36 PM   #8
Tomo453
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Solution to Transducer Conflicts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Roach View Post
Which network protocol does your system use ?

The classic R-series supports

PowerLink
EtherNet/IP
ProfiNet
EtherCAT
SSI
CANBus
ProfiBus DP
Analog
DeviceNet

The newest R-Series V generation supports:

PowerLink
EtherNet/IP
ProfiNet
SSI


Is the issue something different in one of those Ethernet protocol implementations, or just discontinuation of the network protocol you use ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCalderwood View Post
Tomo453, can you send me that original communication from MTS?
Having read your posts, it concerns me as we have a number of these on site, some older than others, but we always got them through a third-party.
I do not know enough about them to compare with your experience, but I know we changed some out about 3 years ago due to a system upgrade. I look in my stock listing, and like you, we have a good quantity in case of failure....

Even if they listed affected part numbers, that would help...
Hello,
The notification that I recieved was from the machine builder. I did get a good response from MTS to my written inquiry. The Gen4 and Gen5 Temposonic sensors will both work with the v1.5 EDS file. This just requires updating the EDS file in the library for the Gen4 sensors. I got the sense that this was the case because I have a whole network ring with the v1.5 EDS file paired to Gen4 sensors. I have comm issues on one ring that mixes the Gen4 and Gen5 sensors but with the wrong EDS file paired to the Gen4 sensors, namely v1.27. The EDS file for all Gen4 sensors in a network need to be updated when a Gen5 sensor is introduced into that network. Kind of a false alarm, but my machine builder's notification was not very detailed. No reason to not go to Gen5 sensors. They are supposed to be more vibration and heat resistant with greater resolution to boot.

Last edited by Tomo453; February 18th, 2020 at 12:59 PM. Reason: re wording
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Old February 18th, 2020, 12:16 PM   #9
Highland Controls
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I don't understand this. E/IP is E/IP. Network should be the same. Command set might have changed, but that is just a code change. I don't see any reason why you can't mix and match old and new. FYI-I am not an E/IP expert.
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Old February 18th, 2020, 02:18 PM   #10
Peter Nachtwey
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The new firmware is probably too big to fit in the old flash memory chips.
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