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I had a project earlier this year to replace a large quantity of cam timers and we used a 48pt (20DO / 28DI) Micro850.


I have to say that I was impressed with the Micro800 and CCW given their relatively low price point.


The only bad thing I will say about CCW (in my opinion) is that it trades more advanced configuration for user friendliness for new users.nfiguration settings (and the mapping is a bit painful).
 
Rson said:
The 1400 only has 12 outputs. I would need an output card (extra $150). My rockwell supplier lists the 1400 at $609, but I have been able to find them for around $450 or so elsewhere.

I need a constant supplier and to not worry that it will be obsolete in 5 years or so.
Click to expand...

My bad. But looking at the AD that offer 120VAC plus 20DI & 16DO, it cost $350 plus will need a 24V PS.
 
I have had excellent results with Automation Direct. Their support is great.
I have a Click that has been in an outdoor location for several years and no problems. It also has a C-more Micro HMI. I wish the customer would put a plex shield over it when not in use, but it keeps on working.
 
Rson said:
Thanks for all the replies so far.

If I had my choice, I'd put an HMI on everything as well. We do a lot of outdoor panels as well, so that makes it harder to justify an HMI.

I have a lot push-back against using PLCs at my company. Many of the sales-people, designers, and owner are older (in the business 30 years or so) and don't feel the equipment we make justifies use of a PLC. They view it as a money sink (which I have proven wrong) and a time sink (sure - you save X time, but now you have to program it).

It doesn't help that my predecessor wasn't very good at his job and often quoted expensive PLCs and spent exhaustive time on the programming end. Most of the projects we do I can program in a morning or afternoon; and if I can get them to switch, 90% or more would be a direct-dump with a short panel check-out - maybe 1 hour. I know it is a time saver and a money saver, but I think there is a fear that I work black magic - and if I'm gone they won't be able to find someone who can do the programming. (there is certainly no one else on staff who can do it).

I've looked at the siemens stuff too - I like the 1200 series - but we have many customers who either love siemens (they spec it) or spec anything BUT siemens - so I'm not sure it would sit with the sales team as a standard.

I mentioned the automation direct stuff because some of the companies they used to have do panels for my company used the DL06 line on some projects - so my company sees it as a 'standard'.
Click to expand...

Another option could be to split the difference between relay logic and PLCs and use a "smart relay", something like the LOGO! from Siemens. I think you're talking closer to $100 for the system than the $700 you mentioned earlier. It's still programmable, but pretty limited. Maybe it lacks analog IO? Probably not something you need if you were DI/DO only with relays.


If you want a "real" PLC:

In AB land, I'd look at the micro800 line over any of the micrologix line. Micro800 is newer, whereas the others are mostly nearing the end of their life cycle. I had a bad experience with it when the line was brand new, but I've heard better things about it recently.

I like the 1200's from Siemens, but as you say, some customers will be opposed. I think most of them are wrong, but they're the ones spending the money ;) The HW is a good value for what you get (it can do almost everything the 1500's can (with less memory/scan speed), and the code migrates up), but the software isn't free (a couple hundred dollars for Step 7 Basic). Honestly, it might be overkill for what you're doing.

Automation Direct might be a good fit here. A Siemens customer will might prefer it to Rockwell, a Rockwell customer will probably prefer it to Siemens. Your internal team appears to be leaning that way anyway. AD is definitely a low cost option in terms of PLCs.
 
gclshortt said:
I would recommend the Click ethernet PLC.
Here is a complete series on programming these controllers.
https://accautomation.ca/series/click-plc/
I hope this helps you out.
Regards,
Click to expand...

The AD P1K and CLICK product lines are 'similarly' priced.
If you need BIG memory or easy array/data, go P1K.
If you need something of a smart relay, go Ethernet CLICK.

P1K has 50-60-ish instructions.
CLICK has a limited (20-ish) instruction-set


Either way, the software has a one-time cost : free.
 
Thanks for all of the replies.

I have a Click with C-more on order to play with the next week or so. It seems too good to be true with the pricing, but we shall see.

I already own a micro 820, but haven't touched it in a year or more. I dislike CCW, but I hear the new version (12) is updated to be more like RSLogix 5000. The last version I used was 10. Maybe it is better. Still looks too large (several GB in size)

I'll try to check back and chime in.
 
Rson,

I'm very curious about the industry or environment this is happening in. I'm somewhat confused as to what may drive them to still use relay-based panels for their operations.

On the PLC side, I don't recommend anything less than a CompactLogix to my customers. They're much more user-friendly and capable than the MicroLogix series. They're obviously pricier, but we've never had a problem justifying the cost of controls especially with the price our customers pay for their equipment, plant, etc. Lastly, they're still looking ahead, so having the "latest and greatest" for the years to come is important as Rockwell continues to discontinue certain products and it become harder to source replacements.

Either way, I'm curious to understand the industry and the drivers that put such constraints on the cost.

Cheers,
Vlad
 
Vlad Romanov said:
Rson,

I'm very curious about the industry or environment this is happening in. I'm somewhat confused as to what may drive them to still use relay-based panels for their operations.

On the PLC side, I don't recommend anything less than a CompactLogix to my customers. They're much more user-friendly and capable than the MicroLogix series. They're obviously pricier, but we've never had a problem justifying the cost of controls especially with the price our customers pay for their equipment, plant, etc. Lastly, they're still looking ahead, so having the "latest and greatest" for the years to come is important as Rockwell continues to discontinue certain products and it become harder to source replacements.

Either way, I'm curious to understand the industry and the drivers that put such constraints on the cost.

Cheers,
Vlad
Click to expand...

We do mostly wastewater and dust/mist collection. Our "machines" are usually 1-3 motors and that is all. We used to be heavy in the auto-industry which is probably another reason for the plc aversion. They (Automakers) have very strict requirements and only expensive PLCs as options - not any reasonable ones for the type of things we offer. We do almost no auto industry work anymore, we have moved to mostly wastewater and oil industry in the last few years.
 
Last edited:
Rson said:
They (Automakers) have very strict requirements and only expensive PLCs as options - not any reasonable ones for the type of things we offer.
Click to expand...


As someone else who works in MI, I would totally believe that. From their end, it simplifies spare parts, from your end it drastically increases cost, something that they probably would expect you to eat for the privilege of building them a machine.


Delivering a machine with a ton of actual relay logic is the perfect "solution" to give the customer what they "want" and give them the finger at the same time.
 

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