RSL5 PID question

ceilingwalker

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Hello all, I am STILL working on this PLC5 to CLX conversion clean-up. I noticed on one of the PID loops, they have Output Limiting set to "yes" and use a few CPT's to drive that value. I haven't ever seen this set to yes and would like to know why someone would want to control the output, using this method? I am not asking for why they did it, just ideas as to circumstances when one would. Thank you.
 
Have a look at the different conditions which drive the different CPT's, that may give you some clues.

Take the example of a tank level PID controller that's set to keep a tank level at 50% by opening an inlet valve more or less. Now let's say that whatever liquid is in that tank will at some point be pumped out very quickly to "flood" some kind of process, but several minutes later will be returned to the tank. What you don't want is for the PID to ramp right up to 100% trying frantically to get the level back up to 50%, because you know that (a) in 2-3 minutes, all that liquid is going to come flooding right back in, and (b) when it does, you don't want your PID loop to be hanging around way up at 100% and having to slowly ramp down, when the level is already way over its 50% setpoint. So, during the "flood and return" part of the process sequence, you limit the output to 30% - enough to still trickle in and ensure the tank doesn't run dry, but not so much that it's going to end up oscillating and chasing itself for 20 minutes after the "flood and return" process is all done.

This is perhaps a slightly over-simplified example, but hopefully it illustrates the idea. I have used limits in this type of scenario on a slightly more complex temperature control loop which had a very strict tolerance on overtemperature conditions (e.g. overshoots of more than 1°C were undesirable, and had to be limited to less than one minute). At known times, there were sudden and significant changes in the airflow, which would very rapidly affect the measured temperature, so I implemented limiting to ensure the PID loop could respond quickly enough to the significantly changed process conditions, while still leaving it tuned generally non-aggressively for better temperature control at normal times.
 
I have a client with a control valve driven by a PID loop. Due to piping restrictions, they do not get any additional flow past the valve being open 65%. So the PID CV output is clamped at 65%. It keeps the loop from shooting all the way to 100% and then having to wait for it to drop below 65% before any action is seen. It is not ideal. It is an attempt to overcome bad mechanics with controls.
 
I agree with Ken Moore, its also happens on the closing side also. If a valve stops flowing at say 10% why let the output go to 0.

Its also an anti-reset windup feature.. See quote from manual.

Output Limiting Displays whether or not the instruction clamps the output at the high and low limiting
values. Displays one of the following:
NO (0) – output not clamped
YES (1) – output clamped
The PID algorithm has an anti-reset windup feature that prevents the integral term from
becoming too large when the output reaches the high or low alarm limits. If the limits
are reached, the algorithm stops calculating the integral term until the output comes
back into range.
 
What I don't understand, in this case, is why the original programmer of the PLC5 controls the furnace temp using the CV Out %. Very strange too me.
 
What I don't understand, in this case, is why the original programmer of the PLC5 controls the furnace temp using the CV Out %. Very strange too me.
People trained in control theory use % output. I do. The first time I used a Rockwell PID i used % too but later changed to counts. The problem is that this requires an extra conversion but it allows for more output resolution when doing PIDs with integer numbers.
 
People trained in control theory use % output. I do. The first time I used a Rockwell PID i used % too but later changed to counts. The problem is that this requires an extra conversion but it allows for more output resolution when doing PIDs with integer numbers.

Thank you. I get it loud and clear now. 👨🏻‍🏫
 
I have a similar application in a project I'm currently working on. Level control in a tank, dart valves on the outlet. Valves are fully seated at 25% CV, so we made the minimum 22% so we didn't have a big lag waiting for the output to go from 0%-25%. Similar on the upper end, we don't seem to get any restriction to outlet flow above 50%, so we made the max output 50%.
 

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