Backup from a PLC running a process

Hi All,
Is it possible to backup/upload a program from a PLC while it is Running a process and we can not stop the process? Or do we have to switch to program mode or go offline to save a program?

Also, what is to be done to save a program with all the descriptions and i/o details etc? I saved a program recently and it didn't have any descriptions .

I am trying to save a program in micrologix 1400 to my laptop using RSlogix 500 but the PLC is running a process right now and I don't want to disturb that.

The PLC is communicating with the panelview HMI using ethernet cable. I want to use Serial cable DF1 driver to save the program and let the PLC keep on communicating using the ethernet cable.

Please let me know if it is feasible or not and any way out..

Thanks in advance .

Yes you can upload from the ML1400 whilst it is in run mode, but you will not get any comments as these are stored in the offline file of RSLogix500, so unless you have a copy of the original program in RSLogix500 you will have to recreate your tags from wiring diagrams.

Alan

Thanks Alan_505. So All I have to do is go to File.... Save as ? and that should save a copy and more importantly not disturb the process at all?
Secondly, can we get the descriptions using Tools...export ...csv and use that somehow to rebuild the exact replica?
Please elaborate.
Thanks once again.

If you do not have the original documented file then you will not be able to upload the comments, some of the later PLC's allows comments, symbols & program structure to be downloaded to the plc so it can be uploaded & restructured as per original file. If you have no original documented file then all you can do is get the drawings, populate your upload with the I/O symbols as you see them and it will be possible to add comments if you can decipher the code.

Just a couple of points.
1) There are no tags in RS500
2) When you are online, it will ask you if you want to upload OR download.
Make sure you don't click on the wrong one. To get a copy of the program out of the the PLC to the PC, with no descriptions, code ONLY, you click upload.
Uploading can be done with the PLC/process in operation.

It can take some considerable time to upload depending on the size of the program and the means of com (i.e DF1 or Ethernet, example 20 minutes for a mine process code on DF1) (edit, just re read and saw it is a 1400 so size of program is unlikely to be a long upload).
Also remember the program you are uploading is in the state that you uploaded at. If code is running and you later download it back into the PLC it may not operate as desired. Preferable you should download a stopped process so when you download the program the process will be in a stopped state.

Thanks Parky.

So is it possible to get the exact replica if the PLC is in program mode?

I need to share the program with someone else.

Please suggest the best possible solution.

Thanks.

Thanks PLCnovice61 for some really good points.

noob, it is very scary when you push upload/download even when you have done it before. If you don't have a copy of said program, which l imagine you don't otherwise why the question, if you click the download button you will download what code you have, possible nothing, so wiping the program from the PLC.
Imagine your PC/laptop sits above the PLC, so downloading is from PC DOWN to PLC, Uploading is from PLC UP to PC/laptop.
You want to UPLOAD code from PLC to PC, DO NOT DOWNLOAD

Re import export description, Nothings is going to get you the descriptions/comments, one of the disadvantages of RS500, not having the ability of very descriptive tags/names in RS5000, all you will get in RS500 is input/output card positions and memory/aux #(i.e timers, bits)

There is one problem with uploading during running.

After the program logic is uploaded it started uploading the data files. Some data is uploaded during each 'overhead' portion of the scans. If it uploads N7:0 to N7:127 in one scan, then N7:128 to N7:255 later the data in the process might have changed.

If you look at the file offline after a running upload you may notice things don't seem right. A temperature may be lower than the setpoint and all the enables and safety's are on, but the output is off because during the upload the heat turned on after it read the Output data, but the N7: & F8: files show the updated values.
.

To expand on that, upload the code into a new file (careful to get it the right way round) and save it to disk, if you have drawings then enter the symbols into the symbols table (long time since I Used 500 so no details). and save it. Scroll through the program with symbols enabled and you will see the I/O will have the symbols so from there you may be able to decipher some of the logic and give some of the internal bits & registers a symbol and possibly rung comments. a good example is if you come across a latch (be it Set/Reset or the output bit ored round the start button with stop button to de-energise it) this bit is probably a run bit. It takes time but at least you may be able to document the code good enough to have some idea how it works. Some will say this is dangerous as you may get it wrong but certainly better than no comments. Also if you are going to make changes, I suggest you stop the process, upload the code to the file this will mean when downloading it, it should be in the stop mode. also if you are not confident to download a modification the suggest you put the processor in stop mode then on re-initiating the run mode get ready with the E-stop just in case.

Thanks PLCnovice61.
So what can be done to get the backup? Or is it undoable?

Thanks

Don't get bogged down with too much info if you are just giving the program to someone.

Click UPLOAD then Save As when done. Give the guy the program and what drawings you have as there will be comments.

Thanks Janner 10.
My number one concern was to make sure that i can still upload while the process is running.

Secondly, I want to make sure that I get the program with all the comments and descriptions. I too want to learn something out of the comments.

I remember printing the ladder logic with all the comments. Print menu had options what to print what not to and print reports were very exhaustive.


So if we can print all the descriptions then why not save a copy of the ladder logic .?
Never thought uploading would be that big a hassle.

Thanks once again.

It sounds if there is some confusion, you suggested that you do not have a commented copy of the program yet I suspect you have a copy but uploaded from the plc to a new file, if you have a documented copy then open up that in 500 and go on-line and upload, this will copy the program into the documented file. the only problem is if someone has modified it and it is different to the documented copy it may throw the comments out.

Thanks Parky.
No I don't have any backup. What I meant was that I remember printing the ladder logic diagrams from the print command and there were options like what to print and what not to.
So, if we can do it for printing, why not for the backup? I mean adding or leaving descriptions.

Can't we take a proper backup even in offline mode when we don't have the original program?

Is the original code that important?

So what I understand is that the PLC doesn't store the descriptions...

Thanks Parky.