Preparing a Practical SCADA course

ayman metwally

Lifetime Supporting Member
Join Date
Dec 2003
Location
Cairo
Posts
258
Hi all

Iam currently preparing for teaching a "Practical SCADA course", actually I already sent the course outline to the client

All i need is your openions and suggesstions.

Well, I thought that i have to be sure that my trainees have an enough data and knowledge to be able to understand what I will teach them about "SCADA".

So i devided the course into 3 modules:

First module: For the fundamentals of Automatic Control and a quick revesion about instrumentation.

Seconed module: For teaching PLC staff (programming, wiring, networking ..)

Third module: (This is the target module) For teaching how to build a SCADA system.
Actually, in my projects I used to use Visual basic 6 and some active x controls and OPC servers to build SCADA systems, But Iam realizing clearly that Using "Packages" is the "DEFAULT" in building SCADA systems.
So I should not face the world and teach my trainees the "non-DEFAULT" method of building SCADA systems. I choosed "Intouch" as it is the most famous Package for many people. (but here in PLCs.net iam seeing a lot of CITEC fans!)

You will be amazed if you know nuumber of hours of the course, First module will be 30 hours, Seconed one will be 50 hours and the third one will be 80 hours. (I know it is too much)

On the other hand, i want the course to be "Practical course".

(( Are you still reading ?? that is great, we are almost there!! ))

So in the first module the trainees will build -by thier hands- a number of real automatic control circuits (they will use Contactors, Timers, breakers, switches ,Motors..)

And also the seconed module will include practical PLC applications and they will program it -by their hands- (I'll build a training Panel based on Automation direct PLC and I/O simulators)

The third module will include data communication from the basics and ending with building complete SCADA applications that will be connected to the PLC panel so they can see that they really built -by their hands- a SCADA system, and i will be sure to produce practical examples from the real world.
They will build SCADA applications that provide all the features that each SCADA system must provide (Communication with PLCs, Process Visualization, Trending, Alarming, Historical trending/alarming and so on)

Well, you may now asking you your self: So what?

Answer: as I said before: I want you suggestions and notes about this as most of you are experinced people in training and projects and I am only 24 years old ( Many of you spent more than 24 years in industry .. Did you got what i mean?)

So i will be so glad to hear your comments.

Thanks in advance for replies and comments.
 
Mickey,

Thank you very much for this wonderful link.

By the way, I forgot to say that Iam not totally new to the training issue, I had been an instructor for three courses recently which coverd (LabVIEW 7 Express programming and PC-based data acquisition systems .. Total durarion was more than 60 hours)

Thanks again for the link, Iam sure that it will improve a lot of things of my self.

Ayman
 
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UPDATE: Yesterday we were in a meeting with the client to discuss about the training course.

Everything was great but he asked me for a thing that I donot know anything about, He asked me about coneecting several SCADA systems all over the country !! ( Hunderds maybe thousands of kilometers)

He is speaking about fiberoptics and microwave and these issues which are a black box to me.

So can you give me any advice about this?
And have you ever done something like that ? (was this a plain english? I donot think so!!)

Thanks in advance.
 
Greetings Ayman,

I’m not sure that I fully understand what you’re asking in your last post ... your English is perfectly understandable ... but what you’ve written may be interpreted in several different ways ... here are a few questions which might help us understand your problem ...

1. the client wants me to design a wide-area SCADA system for him ... once the system has been built, I will train the client’s employees how to operate and maintain the new system ...

2. the client wants me to train his employees how to design a wide-area SCADA system ... once the training has been completed, the employees should be able to proceed with designing and building the project on their own ...

3. the client already has an existing wide-area SCADA system ... the client wants me to train his employees how to operate and maintain the existing system ...

4. the client wants ... (other) ...

please keep in mind that I personally have ZERO experience with such SCADA systems ... but I’m sure that there are some forum members who will be able to help you ... it would be a good idea to nail down the scope of your project with as much detail as possible ...

I’m sorry that this is not the assistance you requested ... but maybe it will help others provide the help you need ...
 
Greetings Ron Beaufort,

First of all: Let me thank for your reply and your will to help me.

To clarify what Iam asking about in my last post :

2. the client wants me to train his employees how to design a wide-area SCADA system ... once the training has been completed, the employees should be able to proceed with designing and building the project on their own

That is absolutly what I want.

I have no problem in designing/training a SCADA systems in a factory or a plant. ( at least i think so !!)
My problem is that I donot know any thing about wide-area SCADA systems.

Thanks again Mr Ron Beaufort.

Ayman
 
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Building a wide area SCADA network is not so difficult in itself.

First you do ONE.
Then TWO.

Networking them is a trickyer part. What type of com. is needed?

Is it to do some control between them?

If not so then you only have to decide how this Data will flow. Many choice are available.

If so you are in deep trouble. This is not a trial and error task. "Like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black hat which isn't there"

Humility should be your next step.

"I don't know and have never done it BUT I have the ressource to help you on this."

Then find an expert.
 
Pierre said:
Humility should be your next step.

"I don't know and have never done it BUT I have the ressource to help you on this."

Then find an expert.

Thank you Pierre, I already did that. I said to the client that this thing needs experts in communication and we will look for a "sister company" to support us with this specific part.

One of my principles is to say "I donot know" when I donot know. Even if I this leads to loosing the contract.

All I wanted to do is to know at least the basics -for now- and starting to "learn" what is this issue to be an expert one day.

When I ever hear about something in "Automation" that I donot know, I always search and look for any information about it.

In this current case I really think that this problem cannot be resolved in an open forum. It is not an easy thing I know. But as I said I just want the lead to know the basics or the sources for the basics.

Thanks again for your advice.

Ayman
 
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Here are the basics of a WAN in automation.

First you have "stand-alone" SCADA systems parse in a wide area. They basically can operate by themselves.

The program in there control system will either poll for some Data from other systems or push Data to them or do both.

The way they comunicate together is of infinite seasonning...

You can have a Database that is read and/or writen to, by all "nodes" using Ethernet or various other networks.

You can have peer-to-peer comunication between nodes. Or have a "master" node doing the shuffle.

The protocls can be proprietairy or "open".

The phisical links could be from dedicated phone lines, to GSMModems (like cell phones) to lease lines to RF to Satellite link.

The systems must be setup so any loss of com or corruption of Data will be safely handled by any "node".

The local node, this you could take care of.

The com. is to be left to an expert. But it's like using a technician to install your phone line. After thats finish you can take care of buziness.

Good luck.

PS: So you do not look like a comp^lete illetrate have a look (google) at deterministic and non-deterministic protocols. Its very important before you select the comunication media and the program of each nodes.
 
Thank you very much Pierre, I appreciate your help and giving these information.





And If it looks like a cat & walks like a cat & talks like a cat ...


Ayman
 
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May I suggest you contact Citect re their SCADA system. They have, alledgedly, constructed the largest SCADA system in the world at Olympic Dam in Australia. I am lead to believe there are in excess of 1 million tags.

Multiple redundant servers, dial up from SCADA to interrogate PLC's, dial up from PLC's with faults/exceptions.

I was very impressed with what I saw of the system they put together. Massive amount of programming. Plant wide and network wide.

www.citect.com

I have found them to be very helpful and Citect is certainly my favourite SCADA system. I have only programmed "toys" compared to this monster. Only up to 3500 tags.
 
Thank you Mr BobB for you reply and suggestion,

The "Olympic Dam" .. Let's check the dictionary for the word "Dam"

Ahha, that is it .. I also made some quick "googling" for the "Olympic Dam" project.

What a big project, Here are some numbers:

- The SCADA system monitors over 450,000 real-time PLC variables. See this page
- Monitoring & controlling 40,000 phyiscal I/O ... That is big!.

Multiple redundant servers, dial up from SCADA to interrogate PLC's, dial up from PLC's with faults/exceptions.

I hope I can get any quick description for these features.

Thanks agian Mr BobB

Ayman
 
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