Controlling Multiple Breakers

quietman187 · Feb 26, 2019

Hi all!
I have a project at a lab on a university that has (qty) 15, 20 amp breakers in a panel feeding all of the receptacles/outlets for that lab. The breaker panel feeds multiple labs, so I cannot turn off the main. I need to take control and shunt trip or turn off these 15 breakers in the event a condition is met (gas detected or a hand station pushed).

Does anyone know a way to take control of 15 (qty), 20 amp breakers and turn them off?

drforsythe · Feb 26, 2019

Do you have the space in the panel for 15 individual shunt trip breakers? Or is it possible to put one large shunt trip breaker that supplies a subpanel that houses the 15 normal circuit breakers?

quietman187 · Feb 26, 2019

drforsythe said:
Do you have the space in the panel for 15 individual shunt trip breakers? Or is it possible to put one large shunt trip breaker that supplies a subpanel that houses the 15 normal circuit breakers?

There is no space for shunt trip breakers unless the same size as a standard 20 amp breaker. I may have to add a subpanel assuming the conductors are long enough and then shunt them all with a main in the sub panel.

JesperMP · Feb 26, 2019

Gas, eh ?
Since gas is involved, is it a concern due to the risk of explosion or the risk of poisoning ?

I doubt that achieving the sufficient risk reduction can be done by tripping circuit breakers.
Do a Risk assessment.
Chose safety category according to risk assessment.
Connect contactors and safety relays according to the chosen safety category.
If the risks are sufficiently high, you may need dual redundant contactors.
If there is a risk of explosion, you must consider EX.

Over here there are Class C standards for specific applications, which MUST be followed if they exist for a specific application. I am guessing that something like that exist for what you are working with.

tragically1969 · Feb 26, 2019

quietman187 said:
Hi all!
I have a project at a lab on a university that has (qty) 15, 20 amp breakers in a panel feeding all of the receptacles/outlets for that lab. The breaker panel feeds multiple labs, so I cannot turn off the main. I need to take control and shunt trip or turn off these 15 breakers in the event a condition is met (gas detected or a hand station pushed).

Does anyone know a way to take control of 15 (qty), 20 amp breakers and turn them off?

What make and model of breaker are they ? Are they MCB or MCCB ?

James Mcquade · Feb 26, 2019

may I suggest that you post the question on an electrical web site.

I am a member of mike.holt.com and they will be more than happy to answer your question. you failed to mention what state, lab classification, and possible gasses.

I am a member of the website and have no association with them.

james

quietman187 · Feb 26, 2019

JesperMP said:
Gas, eh ?
Since gas is involved, is it a concern due to the risk of explosion or the risk of poisoning ?

I doubt that achieving the sufficient risk reduction can be done by tripping circuit breakers.
Do a Risk assessment.
Chose safety category according to risk assessment.
Connect contactors and safety relays according to the chosen safety category.
If the risks are sufficiently high, you may need dual redundant contactors.
If there is a risk of explosion, you must consider EX.

Over here there are Class C standards for specific applications, which MUST be followed if they exist for a specific application. I am guessing that something like that exist for what you are working with.

Yes, these are petroleum engineering doctorates using methane for experimental purpose. We sniff the perimeter and experiment area for methane and shut down the lab electrics and methane sources via solenoid, there is constant exhaust in the lab that will pull the gas outdoors and hopefully not into a smoking area!

quietman187 · Feb 26, 2019

tragically1969 said:
What make and model of breaker are they ? Are they MCB or MCCB ?

I'm unsure of the breaker type. A standard Square D panel if that helps. I will have to perform another walk through.

jrwb4gbm · Feb 26, 2019

Perhaps two of something similar to this downstream of the breakers in an appropriate enclosure? Just a thought, not a recommendation.
https://www.graybar.com/store/en/gb...g-contactor-with-open-type-enclosure-88246371

quietman187 · Feb 26, 2019

jrwb4gbm said:
Perhaps two of something similar to this downstream of the breakers in an appropriate enclosure? Just a thought, not a recommendation.
https://www.graybar.com/store/en/gb...g-contactor-with-open-type-enclosure-88246371

Yes, it's starting to look like a down stream enclosure will be necessary.

JesperMP · Feb 26, 2019

This is a safety issue.
I think that in the US, you can be personally liable.
So I think that you should be very certain that you know what you do, since you can get yourself into some serious trouble.

If this was a machine, you should start with a risk assessment. It is not trivial.
I dont know the safety standards for laboratories, it is possible they are more strict than for machines (!).
At the very least, you should try to find someone with know-how about the subject who knows the general direction you should go.

tragically1969 · Feb 26, 2019

jrwb4gbm said:
Perhaps two of something similar to this downstream of the breakers in an appropriate enclosure? Just a thought, not a recommendation.
https://www.graybar.com/store/en/gb...g-contactor-with-open-type-enclosure-88246371

hey, the 1970's called, they want their hardware back.....

tragically1969 · Feb 26, 2019

quietman187 said:
I'm unsure of the breaker type. A standard Square D panel if that helps. I will have to perform another walk through.

No such thing as a standard Square D panel i'm afraid.

Ignoring all the safety concerns for the time being and dealing with it solely on the electrical front, without the MCB or MCCB model and make there isn't much more anybody can add.

danw · Feb 26, 2019

quietman187 said:
there is constant exhaust in the lab that will pull the gas outdoors and hopefully not into a smoking area!

Don't these experiments need to be done in a ventilated hood where there is no chance for leaking methane (natural gas) to escape? That's what the lab hoods are there for.

A circuit breaker that trips/breaks (or makes) is an arcing/sparking ignition source that has to be in a 'safe' area where there is no exposure to methane.

janner_10 · Feb 26, 2019

No disrespect intended, but the fact you have come here asking questions proves your are outside of you're area of competence.

It's been many years since I was a practicing electrician, but this doesn't sound like the sort of job you want any old 'sparks bodging some shunt trip and hope for the best.

Sounds like a case for someone experienced in this field.

Controlling Multiple Breakers

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