Access to Rockwell Knowledgebase

Do you have access to the Rockwell Knowledgebase?

  • Yes, I/we have full acess.

    Votes: 126 67.7%
  • No, I/we do not have full access.

    Votes: 47 25.3%
  • I/we use someone elses account to access it.

    Votes: 4 2.2%
  • Never heard of it

    Votes: 9 4.8%

  • Total voters
    186
I think that Rockwell's act of putting their forum beyond the reach of people without a support contract shows that they view post-sale support as a revenue stream rather than a necessary part of the overhead associated with their products. It's the next logical step from the two-tiered system of free support and "premium" support. If they're successful, will the next step be that you have to reimburse their salesman's travel expenses when he pays you a visit in person? After that maybe you'll have to pay his hourly rate to prepare a quotation, maybe even pay his commission if you buy from him?

It just goes to show that if forums like this didn't exist, we would have to create tham. Thanks again, Phil!
 
gbradley said:
Wow! I didn't know that AB (Rockwell Automation) had a forum.
For some reason I thought that it was discontinued.
Maybe that was something else?

I believe it was discontinued at one point, but they recently re-opened it.

Edit: oops, I'm slow... way slow...
 
I didn't have supprot for a few years, basically from when they brought out Techconnect. My fee went from very low under the old system to bloody high so I decided to go without as we are an end user and use OEM's for most of our stuff I just used them as my own personal help desk.

I have jsut got it for the first time though as I needed to upgrade about 10 licenses and it was cheaper than buying the software outright (which I had done for the odd one in the past).

Seems OK but the only reason I needed to upgrade my software was due to compatability of the new equipment.
Personally the way I see it - RA manufacture hardware, they develop software to control the hardware. You buy the software to use the hardware, why not have the software upgrade for free and build it into the price of the hardware? Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers
Peter
 
If Rockwell really was promoting their forum you wouldn't need any paid Knowledge base since most of the answers would be in the archives for free, plus people could ask questions and get answers for free! Most tech support from embedded system manufacturers and other tech companies do come from forums where all questions are aired and answered for free!
Thanks Phil for this forum and thanks to all that participate!
 
I use the KB EVERY time I get a new device from Rockwell. I want to see all about it and read all about it. But thats when the problems starts...

There are so many versions of firmwares and revisions and whatever else its called that I often get lost.

I wonder how the staff at Rockwell can manage to be up to date whit that $hit.

Say I call in and ask a question about some compatibility between to version and revision of the same darn thing... How the heck can they answer. They ain't Deep Blue. There just human like you and me.

This is why I read and read again.

Rockwell has so many version of the same $hit that a KB is a minimum. IMHO it should open wide to anybody who wants answers about Rockwell products. There is just too many things.

... and about the mention of having to charge because just to many stupid questions would be asked... HHHUUUUMMM!!! Charging money, hence preventing stupidity. Perhaps this one was writen a bit too late at night. Take a Mulligan!
 
Ignorance isn't bliss. It always costs someone a lot of money.

Freak said:
You buy the software to use the hardware, why not have the software upgrade for free and build it into the price of the hardware? Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers
Peter
That is what we do.

... and about the mention of having to charge because just to many stupid questions would be asked... HHHUUUUMMM!!! Charging money, hence preventing stupidity. Perhaps this one was writen a bit too late at night. Take a Mulligan!
There should be a stupid question filter. An OEM is not responsible for the failure of companies to educate their people.

Just this week I got a trouble call about one of our products that had been working well for many years. Our product had been moved to another machine. The main problem was an wiring error. We used our product diagnostics to find that problem. The tuning was different between the old machine and the new machine. There was no Ethernet connection where I could just control the machine and fix it from here. Basically I spent 1 hour helping an electrician to get his injection molding machine to go with a mini training session. The electrician was a very capable person but he wasn't involved in getting the original machine to work. He may have been hired long after the original installation and never had a need to mess with our product until now, I don't know. So who should pay for the cost of ignorance? I think the electrician's management is to blame. So what if they have to pay a few hundred bucks for support after 10 year of flawless operation? There was nothing wrong with our product. Still we didn't charge them anything but that may change.

In short. I think Rockwell should make documentation free. I think it is in their best interests to do so. Our documentation is free. However, if Rockwell wants to charge for stupid questions it is alright with me. It is their right.
I think bug fixes should be free but not major enhancements. If one pays for version 16 they they should expect to get a perfect version 16. If this requires a 16a, 16b or 16z to get it right then Rockwell should bear the cost. However, the user wants to upgrade to version 17 to get new feature then that is a cost that the user should bear.
 
JHutch2000 said:
I can speak, a little, to the Rockwell Automation policy on contract vs free content.

For many products, it's basically all free (ie, Activations. Various Industrial Control products, such as buttons and relays. etc.). For others, we follow this breakdown:

Free = Break-fix/patches/firmware/error codes and explanations.

Contract = Applications and training information.

There are always gray areas between the two and documents are sometimes shuffled between the two as one or another argument gets made one way or the other.

We really do believe that the contract level answers in our knowledge base provide a value-add for the customers that use it. Even if you don't personally use it, our usage statistics show that a large number do every day. And the satisfaction surveys we employ show a favorable reaction to it on the whole.

Now, that is not to say that things cannot be improved. In fact, one of my personal duties is to try to improve both the content and the experience folks have with the KB, Forums, online question submission (Ask a Question) and online Chat (a feature that is in a Pilot phase for a few products). If you have trouble finding particular information, let me know. I don't have time to keep up with threads here, unfortunately, so I can't say that I'll see it if you post it publically here, but I do keep on top of messages and I read every post in the Forums at our website (http://forums.rockwellautomation.com).

With almost 60k answers in the current Knowledge Base, there are constantly things that can be improved, from the content of individual answers to the search results for particular keywords. There are things I can do to address both (and other) issues once they are brought to my attention.

We do want to make the electronic support a viable and important part of the support we offer our customers. I think, to a large extent, we do. I also want to get better. So, let me know what can be improved. I'll do whatever I can to make it so.

Thanks for your time,

Joshua Hutchinson
Rockwell Automation Knowledge Base Support

You could open up the KB completely for free use!

I used the kb/forum and had someone else get the answers a few months back due to not having a tech connect contract. It was to do with datalogging on a PV+CE. It didnt matter i had bought 3 1500's i still had to have a Tech Connect for Studio to access some answers !

RA have lost all (albeit small) of my businees due to this paying policy, unless i have to i now use other products with better and free support.

If you search here its been debated before and is sometimes a hot subject.
 
JHutch2000 said:
I can speak, a little, to the Rockwell Automation policy on contract vs free content.

For many products, it's basically all free (ie, Activations. Various Industrial Control products, such as buttons and relays. etc.). For others, we follow this breakdown:

Free = Break-fix/patches/firmware/error codes and explanations.

Contract = Applications and training information.

There are always gray areas between the two and documents are sometimes shuffled between the two as one or another argument gets made one way or the other.

We really do believe that the contract level answers in our knowledge base provide a value-add for the customers that use it. Even if you don't personally use it, our usage statistics show that a large number do every day. And the satisfaction surveys we employ show a favorable reaction to it on the whole.

Now, that is not to say that things cannot be improved. In fact, one of my personal duties is to try to improve both the content and the experience folks have with the KB, Forums, online question submission (Ask a Question) and online Chat (a feature that is in a Pilot phase for a few products). If you have trouble finding particular information, let me know. I don't have time to keep up with threads here, unfortunately, so I can't say that I'll see it if you post it publically here, but I do keep on top of messages and I read every post in the Forums at our website (http://forums.rockwellautomation.com).

With almost 60k answers in the current Knowledge Base, there are constantly things that can be improved, from the content of individual answers to the search results for particular keywords. There are things I can do to address both (and other) issues once they are brought to my attention.

We do want to make the electronic support a viable and important part of the support we offer our customers. I think, to a large extent, we do. I also want to get better. So, let me know what can be improved. I'll do whatever I can to make it so.

Thanks for your time,

Joshua Hutchinson
Rockwell Automation Knowledge Base Support

From a thread "Where is HMI board ?" on Rockwells Automation Forum:
JHutch @ Rockwell Automation Forum said:
The HMI, Programmable Controllers, Motion Control and Drives boards are all contact only areas of the forums.
You will need to have a TechConnect support contract (you can contact you local distributor if you wish to purchase one) and then put the associated contract number into your profile.
This will give you immediate access to above mentioned areas of the forums as well as access to the Ask a Question feature and the contract level technotes in the Knowledge Base.
Hello and welcome to the real forum Joshua.

Re-opening the Rockwell forums would be a big step in the right direction. However, you havent exactly done that yet.
Keeping it closed in sections requiring you to have TechConnect support contracts to gain access is one of the stupidest decisions I have ever seen.
Dont you guys get it ?
It is the quality of the members and the posts that members make that attract other quality members. It is what makes a "forum" a forum and not a club or a waiting room to see the doctor.

You guys should wake up to the reality.
This attempt to control us customers as mere sheep, belongs to the history books.
Look at what the competition does !

You ask "So, let me know what can be improved. I'll do whatever I can to make it so.". Go to your bosses and tell them to tear down the walls.
 
They closed it down for about a year and a half and have partially re-opened it. (See Jesper's reference above)

gbradley said:
Wow! I didn't know that AB (Rockwell Automation) had a forum.
For some reason I thought that it was discontinued.
Maybe that was something else?
 
JesperMP said:
You ask "So, let me know what can be improved. I'll do whatever I can to make it so.". Go to your bosses and tell them to tear down the walls.

Well said Jesper, I couldn't have put it better...
 
Copyright

I haven't seen any Copyright notices on these KB app. notes. The disclaimer only mentions liability. I have no idea why MrPLC is making an issue out of this? If it's OK with Phil, republishing KB articles here would help a lot. Any thoughts on this?

Making AB's forum closed to general public clearly reinforces the notion of how insecure AB must feel! Afraid of competition? Afraid of opposing views and ideas? Afraid that someone might post links to better products from someone else? I would be too if I were AB, after all last quarter at AB was not something to be proud of.

One more thing. Forums like this one tend to generate many pages that get indexed by Google. When you search for almost any subject involving PLC's you will end up here on PLCS.NET, doesn't AB marketing understand this? Duh..
 
JHutch2000 said:
I can speak, a little, to the Rockwell Automation policy on contract vs free content.

For many products, it's basically all free (ie, Activations. Various Industrial Control products, such as buttons and relays. etc.). For others, we follow this breakdown:

Free = Break-fix/patches/firmware/error codes and explanations.

Contract = Applications and training information.

There are always gray areas between the two and documents are sometimes shuffled between the two as one or another argument gets made one way or the other.

We really do believe that the contract level answers in our knowledge base provide a value-add for the customers that use it. Even if you don't personally use it, our usage statistics show that a large number do every day. And the satisfaction surveys we employ show a favorable reaction to it on the whole.

Now, that is not to say that things cannot be improved. In fact, one of my personal duties is to try to improve both the content and the experience folks have with the KB, Forums, online question submission (Ask a Question) and online Chat (a feature that is in a Pilot phase for a few products). If you have trouble finding particular information, let me know. I don't have time to keep up with threads here, unfortunately, so I can't say that I'll see it if you post it publically here, but I do keep on top of messages and I read every post in the Forums at our website (http://forums.rockwellautomation.com).

With almost 60k answers in the current Knowledge Base, there are constantly things that can be improved, from the content of individual answers to the search results for particular keywords. There are things I can do to address both (and other) issues once they are brought to my attention.

We do want to make the electronic support a viable and important part of the support we offer our customers. I think, to a large extent, we do. I also want to get better. So, let me know what can be improved. I'll do whatever I can to make it so.

Thanks for your time,

Joshua Hutchinson
Rockwell Automation Knowledge Base Support

Ugg... While I know it is never any company's intention to cause its customers grief or headache in their support services, AB seems to be quickly attempting to run the same gambit as Dell, HP, and numerous other large US companies. No longer is it possible to speak with someone with a clear and understandable English speaking accent (err should I say American/Western European). In addition, often times I find myself feeling as though I have to defend myself in my description of a problem (especially when trying to trying to troubleshoot networking related issues). It often feels as though the attitude from TechSupport is if it isn't in the Troubleshooting script handed to the phone-agent their attitude seems to be that the problem CAN'T exist.
Additionally, AB seems to be interested in making their products more cumbersome and complicated to use requiring more intensive and costly software to actually utilize it. Where it used to be a concept to design with a concept of "Ease of Use" and the principle of "K.I.S.S.", AB has ensured that is no longer possible and will charge you slightly less than the value of your first-born to only partially assist you in making a guess at deciphering "how-it-works". Being from the "Knowledgebase Support" side of things it's great that you are trying to promote it and make it better. Let me give you a scenario though that I am sure is the most common;
'You're sitting in the middle of a plant next to a Boiler attempting to TS the Controller and re-establish a connection with it so you can make a slight modification for the customer. It's about 50 degrees outside of the ideal working temperature for a normal human being and there is no internet signal available. The controller of course is in a cabinet that has you pinned in such a way that if a picture was taken of you and sent to Cirq'de Soli you would quickly get a job offer for your contortionist ability. The customer is breathing down your neck and you need an answer immediately from a trained professional.'
My question is how do you propose I get the answers I need. from your Knowledgebase? So sorry, many industrial plants still think faxing is a new technology. Your hope of getting an interenet connection is slim to nill. Of course I could try calling... but that guy from Bangledesh says he can't understand me as I try to talk to him in English with an Indiana accent. When he finally does understand me he reads to me straight from the book a bunch of jiberish that I already know, then tells me... "I am sorry sir; you're problem is not so solvable. Please call back when you have a problem I can give you a most correct answer with. Is there anything else I can get answer you for? It has been a most pleasure of mine to assist you today." {emphasized for sarcasm and not meant to be directly reflective or critical of any race/religion/creed/nationality... simply editorial}
I have tried a few times to utilize the "survey" that comes after each call I make to AB, and to be quite honest, my thought is that is tailored to receive only positive feedback.
I'll admit, I'm new to the Controls arena. As such, I think the largest frustration is that AB has locked down their software and anything related to their equipment to the point that it is virtually impossible to find anything that readily assists a newcomer get a handle on it without having to spend enough money to purchase a small country (exaggerated, I know). AB seems to know that next to Siemens they are probably the most requested controller in the world. You don't often find (at least in all the companies and industries I've been affiliated with over the past 8 years) a RFQ specifying a Mits, Tel, or other vendor controller by name. In contrast I have seen numerous spec's stating "w/ AB controller" or "w/ Siemens controls".
What happened to the day when a company was so interested in ensuring you chose their product over the competition, that they were willing to give you all the training and assistance they could (without huge costs) to ensure your experience with their product was far superior to anyone else’s. Oh wait... didn't AB once do that? Isn't that how they got their name in the industry to be what it is now? Oh... I get it, once you achieve GOD status you no longer need to continue the traditions that got you that in the first place. Sorry, missed that when I was learning economics and business management.
I don't mean to rant to terribly (too late now, I guess), but really... is there anybody at AB besides yourself I'm sure, that is genuinely interested in what WE the CONSUMER thinks? I appreciate your input Josh, and don't mean to aim any of this directly at you... perhaps though you can utilize the info above to assist those above you in providing valuable assistance to the consumer.
 
Last edited:
As a relative newbie myself, I whole heartedly agree with Eritzman.

I ound Joshua’s post amusingly insulting although I understand he has to reflect AB's company line. When I was learning how to install a HSC on a Micrologix 1200 last month, I tried to find clear instructions on the wiring and set up parameters. I was using a BEI encoder and futilely searched AB's web site for the info (simple matter of where to wire A, B, +24 and -24 and hte not so simple set up parameters).



Being a relative newbie, I was unaware of the KB. So I called their technical support and eventually I got someone who found the info and faxed it to me. He rather snidely told me all this was on the KB and I should look there with future questions.



A month later, I had lost the fax so I went back to the KB. It took me about 15-20 minutes to finally figure out what search terms to use. I find the search engine kind of cumbersome. When I finally located the document, now get:



Not Available at This Time



This answer may be getting updated, or it may only be available to TechConnect support contract holders (see answer 50871 for details).





So the document that I need to make a piece of their equipment function is only readily available if we have the service contract. It’s mind blowing.

Oh, I almost forgot. The write up contained a major error anyway. I had to call the same service guyagain and he eventually got me teh correct info.

I am only partial to AB since that’s what they teach in most schools here. AB’s attitude on support makes me not only willing, but even eager, to look into other options.



Their only saving grace is that the guys at our local distributor are pretty sharp and extremely helpful. Unlike AB, they understand that I won’t order more of their equipment if I can’t get the first stuff to ever work.



That and I’ve gotten answers on 3 other “how to” questions by searching the archives of THIS forum. You all are AB’s knowledge base.
 

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