Motors Question -- title edited by Phil

I was going to go on to mention the real profanities in the world like people left to starve, war, selfishness of the developed world, man's inhumanity to man, but I have had this argument before, and nobody wins.

Click to expand...

As for those who are "offended", in this day and age anyone can and WILL be offended by something YOU (yes you!) say despite any attempt of yours to be non-offensive, so get over it. If you're on the internet and you don't expect to be offended at some point.......

Click to expand...

Well said guys. I get offended by people hijacking my posts and disseminating deceptive information to serve their own interest.
It is funny though to see US citizens complain about being offeneded by something like that? LOL
In todays highly competitive work place, which is a melting pot of stress, you must be getting offended at least once a day. Average European coming to US and working here for a while will find that offensive and rude ways are part of the American culture. Modern management techniques encourage unstructured work environment and this in turn promotes free for all culture. Never mind all those sensitivity classes that Company sponsors. Why do you need them? Oh maybe because you need to be taught how to behave?
In Europe engineers carry certain professional status, here in US we have been reduced to a skilled labor resource, which can be outsourced at any time and that really offends me !

Regardless of all of the language part of the discussion...

Why don't you just change out the motors?? Surely there are equivalent size and frame motors available in NZ, aren't there?? That will likely be cheaper in the long run -- especially when you consider the long-term support of "odd" equipment.

Or if you can't find commercially available equivalent motors, contact your local motor shop and have them rewound.

This "problem" isn't such a big issue as to cause an "international conflict".

"Mild censorship" is called for.

The forum rules doesnt say so much about this potentially explosive subject (profanities, not american motors). Just "no abusive language please".

I dont like the "remove this thread" yells. Save your anger for something really important.
I think that maybe some moderation could be called for, like changing the headline to "****** american motors!".
What may be totally unacceptable in one part of the world is probably just a mild expletive in another.

The guy definitely need some help.

jimbo346 said:

Freedom of speech, and freedom of religion. Something people are dying for in every little dusty crack in the world right now. some even represent the United States. Yet the first thing somebody who thinks one is absolute, is so quick to condemn other. :-/
Wouldn't it have been better to just not comment at all if you did not like what the header said?

Click to expand...

I'm all for freedom of speech and of religion. Even though I dislike his choice of words in the header I do support our right to say things whether they be stupid or not. I'll also let him know that it's not necessary and its offensive. Perhaps as a Texan you can appreciate the fact that rather than be a doormat and not say anything I choose to say "Don't tread on my faith"

I think it comes down to this
1. The guy shot himself in the foot with the title.
2. The title is offensive to some
3. I vote that Phil change the title (if he can)
4. Let this be a lesson to all that different cultures have different values. It was stressed to us over hormoned young US Navy sailors to mind our manners overseas - lest we end up in one of THEIR jails and THEY did not have to let us out.
5. I think the poster expressed an apology but would recommend posting an apology just to ensure the peace.
6. I think the subject matter of the post is a good one and deserves attention.

Dan Bentler

No. I disagree whole-heartedly. As a Christian, I am always hearing how we need to be more tolerant. Imagine the outcry on this forum if I would have said something offensive to another religion! I would have been critisized and labeled an intolerant. If we are going to push tolerance, it should be evenly distributed.

Why should I ignore something so deeply offensive to me, when others would not? Freedom of speech is one thing, but having mutual respect for others feelings and beliefs should trump a persons right to just say anything that they want.

By the way, I am addressing Earl29's post, not the previous post to my message.

Quite the discussion going on. Constitutional rights and all i say, and I dont even live in the states. Prehaps if I did, then Texas is where I want to be, oh, that means I get a gun too! Sweet! o and shoot me some ducks with my 9. I'm not going to apologies in a separate thread as I have done so allready in this one. And as to those that can't forgive, your narrow mindness and lack of respect for the other side dumbfounds me. Even as a non christian I do recall something from my early years of compoulsury scripture classes about repenting or similar. With regards to been "Unprofessional", for a start i'm only 25 years old, and my work envioronment is a pleasurable one, so much so that I suggest none of the original first five posters would last 5 minutes in. No topic is sacred at our smoko table! As a young sparky who only does 10% of his time programming, and rearly dealing with customers, I do not need to be "Professional" nor do I want to be. As my career evolves and I plan on growing up one day, I will reach controls engineer, then that will be the time. Even then I will still curse and swear and mutter all things evil. I picked the wrong title, and I used slang not acceptable by a small but important and respected group of peers. As stated earlier, sorry!

And go Obama! Peace and prosperity to the west...

Here is what I understand

You have USA made equipment with motors on it up to 10HP. These are connected star for a 460 phase to phase line with 9 leads brought out.
Your line voltage is 415 phase to phase.
Your line voltage is too low for satisfactory motor operation. They MAY run but I would not do it.

QUESTION What is total connected load of motors at 460
What will you require for control power? Is this supplied by internal 460/230 transformers with 120 secondary?

SOLUTION
Get a transformer with 460 secondary to serve all motors on machine. This will correct voltage problem for both the motors and for the control power.
OR correct the line voltage problem by adjusting output voltage setting in the VFDs if possible (still may leave a problem for control power though)

As for the 1.73 (root 3) question I think you have it backwards. On a wye connection phase (line to star point) is line to line divided by 1.73. So on a 460 phase to phase (line) the "phase" ie line to star point it 277. And that is just how we crazy Yanks do it.

Dan Bentler

HJTRBO said:

Hey all,

I'm very embarrassed to ask this question but I truely dont know the answer.

The machine was imported from the states 2nd hand (in great condition mind) and has a number of like motors that currently are all configured for high voltage.

The one i'll pick on is a 9 wire 7.5kW (10hp) motor that is internally star (wye) connected. The name plate voltage is 230/460V. It is to be hooked up to a Eurotherm 690 VSD.

Our system in Australia is 240/415V. Where the secondary of the utility supply transformer is star (wye) orientated. 415V phase to phase and 230V phase to nuetral.

I'm guessing that I will re-work the motors in the low voltage configuration. This will have a like pair of windings in parallel per phase with 240V dropped across them.

Is this the correct way to wire this motor?

Second side question, the motors are all wired in high voltage, so does that mean that there was 460V dropped across the 2 series windings. Go by root3 thats a line voltage of almost 800V???
Sorry to have to ask, but you yanks got me second guessing myself!

Click to expand...

Geez, I didn't even see it from a religious or political point of view...

I saw the title no differently as on say "Siemens PLCs suck, BTW could someone help me with my program?" or "I hate AB, could someone tell me how to configure the HSC?"

You may hate the product or think it sucks, but is that really the right way to ask for help?

I picked the wrong title, and I used slang not acceptable by a small but important and respected group of peers. As stated earlier, sorry!

Click to expand...

Perhaps I misinterpreted you statement. If I did I also apologize.

leitmotif said:

SOLUTION
Get a transformer with 460 secondary to serve all motors on machine. This will correct voltage problem for both the motors and for the control power.

Click to expand...

We have done this once and it was the simplest fix. One transformer to feed the whole odd-ball machine without any modification to its internals. Just make sure your transformer is designed to handle the step-up.

Only drawback, is having to keep up with spare parts for a set of controls that will probably be unique to your facility.

Paul

jimbo346 said:

Freedom of speech, and freedom of religion. Something people are dying for in every little dusty crack in the world right now. some even represent the United States. Yet the first thing somebody who thinks one is absolute, is so quick to condemn other. :-/
Wouldn't it have been better to just not comment at all if you did not like what the header said?

Click to expand...

Jimbo
I completely disagree with you and feel the people who found the title offensive have the right and duty to make their feelings and rights known. You have that yellow flag with the snake on it and the caption "don't tread on me". That flag goes way back to American Revolution where we stood up for our rights and fought for them. I fully support their right to object - I may not agree with their level of anger but I support their right to object.

Tolerance is a two way street. I hope I am as tolerant (is forgiving a better word - I think so) of others mistakes as I hope people will be of mine.


OKIE
I agree with the spare parts question / problem. I really do know better but completely forgot that. It is going to be so nice when I become perfect and stop making these )#@!^%! mistakes.
Dan Bentler

OkiePC said:

Only drawback, is having to keep up with spare parts for a set of controls that will probably be unique to your facility.

Click to expand...

That's why I suggested rewinding or replacing the motors. Makes the long-term support of this machine MUCH easier...

HJTRBO said:

Hey all,


The machine was imported from the states 2nd hand (in great condition mind) and has a number of like motors that currently are all configured for high voltage.

The one i'll pick on is a 9 wire 7.5kW (10hp) motor that is internally star (wye) connected. The name plate voltage is 230/460V. It is to be hooked up to a Eurotherm 690 VSD.

Our system in Australia is 240/415V. Where the secondary of the utility supply transformer is star (wye) orientated. 415V phase to phase and 230V phase to nuetral.

Click to expand...

I must be missing something here. If I'm not mistaken your hz is 50 correct? I would think the motors will deliver the same torque at 415V 50 hz as when it's powered by 480V 60 hz. The only problem aside from some people being offended, is that the motors will be running at 5/6 the speed that they were in the states. Also the total horsepower will be 5/6 of what is was in the states. But the torque will be the same.

Remember that a VFD varies the voltage as well as the hz and that you will still be near 8 volts to the hz.

Now if the design of this machine was to run at 90 hz (a common speed when you have a VFD connected in the states). you may have to settle for 75 hz top speed

KP_EENG said:

No. I disagree whole-heartedly. As a Christian, I am always hearing how we need to be more tolerant. Imagine the outcry on this forum if I would have said something offensive to another religion! I would have been critisized and labeled an intolerant. If we are going to push tolerance, it should be evenly distributed.

Why should I ignore something so deeply offensive to me, when others would not? Freedom of speech is one thing, but having mutual respect for others feelings and beliefs should trump a persons right to just say anything that they want.

By the way, I am addressing Earl29's post, not the previous post to my message.

Click to expand...

Sorry Earl29, I misread your post. I was adressing the post sited in your post.