EZ-PLC - Whatta ya think?

So, EZAutomation has luanched. What do YOU think about their PLC?

I like racks (GE 9030's and AB), I love micro's and nano's (sopecial micro 90's), I like modulars (VersaMax), and Moeller's easy relay (are they a micro, modular, or?). I think that Entertrons "board" type ePLC is a very good product, too!

I am not so sure about the new EZ.

Here's a "LINK" to look at it.

So, after abstaining from posting a poll in what seems an eternity...here we go!

regards.....casey

proven product

You know Casey the people making the AD plcs had been around a long time before AD under diffferent names with the proven years of experience all they needed was what AD did advertising. With the plcs out there and the price they are I think they have a long row to hoe. With the price of down time anymore I don`t think it will fly. WHICH MEANS YOU SHOULD PROBABLY BUY STOCK IN THEM

I didn't vote in the Poll. I hate Polls. Polls are meaningless. Anyone that makes a decision based on a Poll is an idiot.

Copernicus and Galileo were vilified by a means of a "Rightous and Holy" Poll.

Polls aside...

This system looks like it has a lot of potential.

If a brand new OEM, trying to develop a rather simple system, working on a shoe-string budget, simply looks at the comparison charts, then I can see a lot of those new OEMs giving this PLC some serious consideration.

One of their main selling points is that their systems are cheap enough that one could buy one of the high-end systems just to give it a try... in-house only! What can you lose?

I can see this becoming the system of choice for home-systems.

The posted instruction set seems to be reasonable in most respects. It looks like the instructions provided will cover most programming needs. Since most "higher level" instructions are nothing more than routines created with lower level instructions, an experienced programmer can develop most of the higher level instructions with those instructions that are included. Of course these will not be as efficient as the canned routines, however, you can design them to suit your needs - exactly.

Of course, the final judgment is determined by what the process really needs.

I did notice a lack of any System Time Instructions, also that there was no mention of Pointers or Indirect Addressing. Certain situations rely on System Time thus requiring the particular instructions. Also, certain situations can be made much more efficient through the use of Pointers and Indirect Addressing.

I wonder if the system provides access to ANY memory location, such as reading/writing to any Timer/Counter Preset or Current Memory locations. How about accessing the Drum Words?

I am pleased to see (if it is so) that there are no artificial constraints on memory-typing (Integer-Files, Real-Files, etc.).

I wonder if the Instuction Set includes more than they described (I hope so). It would be a shame to think they put in this much effort and then decided not to bother with a few simple "extras" that would have been very easy to include. I hope the programmers at this place didn't decide to be minimalist just because it was faster (easy, lazy).

My best suggestion would be to have these people look at the TI-505 (Texas Instrument 505) Memory Management Model. In all of my years, more than a few, and with many different PLC's, it is the BEST Memory Management Model in town! Except for certain particular system locations, which should never be writeable, it is totally open and totally accessible for read/write in any data-type form. That is, if you want to read a Word, then Read 1-Word starting at Address XXXX. If you want to read a Double-Word or a Real-Word then Read 2-Words starting at Address XXXX. If you want to read a Byte then Read 1-Byte at Address XXXX.

It would be nice if they had their Programmers Reference Manual available on-line. I didn't see it.

If they go the TI way (no pun intended), and include the "extras"... I'm sold!

Aside from that...
I can see a bunch of these PLCs showing up in small companies and for personal use in the home. I can then see a bunch of kids growing up with these, at home. I can then see those kids (if the Dad is willing to let them touch it at all... probably a spare one, sitting on the workbench... after all, they're damned cheap!) learning how to "play" (program) "Dad's Toy" and then looking forward to working with those TOYS out in the work world... very much like what happened with PC's.

Many of our younger members (PLCnet members) were born after the advent of the PC. They grew up with the PC. The PC is almost second-nature to them. I can see the same thing happening with this little device.

I can see this being the "Crescent Wrench" of the future. Everyone in the trades has one, at work AND at home!

I would definitely suggest buying stock in this company when it goes public!

Thomas, you probably have a very valid point there.

I used KOYO's at one time. I was met with a lot of opposition, about using a name brand. The fact that they were also GE, TI, Siemans, etc was im-material (wife says that ain't a word).

Anyway, AD would be a good stock to have. I am not 100% sure who exactly manufacturers EZ-PLC, so I won't speculate here. That's rare for me...

At one time, I would have said there concept was very cool. I may in the future. It is uniaue, very different to what we are used to.

I thought the GE Smart relay was neat, and when the "easy" relay came out with the built in software, I was estatic, even with only 8 I/O. Now that they are bigger, expandable, networkable, I am realy pleased. Just wish I had the same market I used to.

And I ran across Entertron ePLC's by accident. A "board" type PLC with their capabilities of higher I/O's and larger outpat ratings caught my eye. Then I found out that not just anyone could pull the programming code out or mess with it, I was once again estatic. I like Entertron's "low profile" which comes in handy in many applications. Often I have to perform miricles with an 8x10 enclosure, 6" and often 4" deep.

The vote is still young, on the EZ-PLC. I thought the Optimate Pointe Controller would be better known then it is, but I guess it's somewhat lower price didn't help. The EZ could have a place in many facilities around the world, at least with the price of the I/O you can have a lot of spares.

So, we'll see how the voting goes, which will time out around Tax Day 2005.

regards.....casey

Terry, you too, have a valid point. I would hope that people would look into a product as deep as you obviously have, before making a decision.

When the tire plant was spending well over $20,000 for the "big name" PLC system, we showed them that a 9030 would do the same, plus more, for under $3,000. It helped that we had over 300 9030's in operation, so there was the luxury of not having to come uop with $$$ to buy some to try it. I miss my (READ "their") stash of spare 9030 parts for an emergency or just to play with.

Lots of time to make toys out of Micro-90's. I miss the "GOOD" ol days.

regards.....caaey

Younger PLCS.net Members

Terry. you mentioned the younger members, the poor souls won't get to experience the dark ages of controls. My first two PLC projects were in 1988, converting "automatic" beam welding machines from relays to PLC-2's. The plc's went into the old cabinets, along with a couple of relays and motor starters. One rack, plus relays, about 4 linear feet. So most of the 2 door floor standing cabinet was empty.

I remember car wash panels we built in the early 70's. The sub-panel was at least six foot square. There was NO room for anything extra, everything was crowded in there. The last car wash panel I saw was a small PLC, with a few IEC contactors and relays, total less then 2 square feet of space.

Maybe we should post some "classic" relay cabinets (old and grimmy) for the "PC" generation.

There are still a lot of plants out there with no plc's, or not many. The EZ units may just have quite a future there.

regards.....casey

"im-material" (wife says that ain't a word).
"immaterial" is a word (witout the hyphen).

However, there ceratinly is no such word as "irregardless", with a hyphen or not. That would be a double-negative built into itself. There ain't no such thing... like "ain't got no".

"Stuph" is not a word either. Look it up... you won't find it.

Just curious... why do you use "stuph" instead of "stuff"?

(And it's a good thing that it doesn't cost money to run a poll, at least, not here. If it did, you would be eating into your retirement fund by now!)

Alright... I'm done being a critical a$$hole...

This PLC represents the break-through I have been suggesting, for many years, that would come. This PLC could "break the backs" of the Big-Boys. If, and when, that does occur, this PLC will then, I'm sure (I hope), begin to provide software that follows "English-Speak", much like the "C" Language.

It will be "structured" only in the most basic sense. That is, with respect to defining what-is-what (declarations, et al). After that, all references are made in "English-Terms" as to how to control this or that.

IF "The Heater is Enabled" AND the "Temperature in the room is Cold" then "Turn ON the damned heater, will ya? Huh? Will ya please?"

This is a basic HUMAN concept. "I'm Cold". Therefore, "Turn ON the Heat!"

I can't hardly wait for this to become the mainstream!

Imagine, being able to have the PLC respond to English-Type instructions.

The next logical progression would be for the programmer to be able to SPEAK (literally SPEAK) the instructions to the Processor (as in "voice-recognition".

"HAL?"
"Yes, I'm here."
"Would you mind turning the temperature down a bit?"
"Certainly. How much?"
"Two or three degrees would be nice."
"Which is it? Two or three degrees?"
"Let's try three degrees, Hal"
"Alright, I'm turning down the temperature three degrees. Will that be satisfactory?"
"Yes, Hal. Three degrees will be fine"
*
*
*
"It is now three degrees cooler. Is that satisfactory?"
"Yes, Hal. Thank You."
"Do you want this temperature every time you come into this room?"
"Yes, Hal, unless there are others in the room that have specified other temperatures. In that case, please ask what temperature is required."
"Okie-Dokie!"

old panels

You talk about these young people missing something in the 60`s the Weyerhaeuser plant at Wright City, Ok put in two chipping saws one 18" and a 22" line. They were made by Cancar out of Canada the first one was all relays the electronics giant the diodes looked like dog ticks on a big old green board. On the infeed was a bunch resistors these resistors were hooked to copper segments with a brush that moved up and down on them which formed a wheatstone bridge this was used to gauge the log size. The sets on the saws were also a Wheatstone bridge. No temposonics the sets were I believe Dakota cylinders. The No. 2 chipping saw had triax in the place of the relays home made actually pulled in like a relay. No drives no plcs all relays hard wired. The feed rate I believe was 150 ft/min we thought that was fast. Also on the main floor was two headrigs. The trimmer all relays . The sorter had a bunch of ball bearings that went through cycles this kept up with the boards to bays all electric over air over mechanical. I`ll bet Peter remembers some of this type wiring? GOOD OLD DAYS A lot of the older wiring was 480 volt control!

Stuph must be a word, it is in my spellchecker! Stuff vs stuph came about when a couple of guys started stuffing too much into control cabinets, and we all were claiming items that were ours as stuff, so poccessions became stuph versus putting too much into something. They were stuffing stuph. I wil admit to "stealing" the word stuph from Dan Montville of MDM Radio in the Chicago suburbs. He motto is: "If it is in stock, then we've got it". He also reminds us not to send cash via e-mail.

Gee whiz, I hadn't polled for a couple of weeks. I got a couple of PM's asking if I was torqued off becuase of Eric's poll, or something.

I use irregardless a lot. Doesn't it mean Not-Regardless???

I would like to see a nice blend of ladder logic, state logic, and function blocks in a program, that didn't require a semester or two to master and a years worth of pay for the program. In the mean time, I will still use my LogicMaster 90, and try to remember where my VersaPro CD wound up, and try to remember why I am not usinging Cimplicity. Oh yeah, you don't send out cimplicity in a machine when customer only has LogicMaster.

Oh well...

You can be as critical as you want, it IS an open forum, and you do appreciate some of the finer things in life, like MGD.

best regards.....casey

Re: old panels

Thomas Sullens said:

I`ll bet Peter remembers some of this type wiring?

Click to expand...

I can remember REAL DRUMS!!!! As far as I can tell they worked well and except for the fact that no one supported them anymore. The schematic was probably lost.

As for the EZAutomation PLCs. They say they have Ethernet, but we all know that isn't enough. They must have an application layer like Modbus TCP,Host Engineering protocol, Ethernet/IP, CSP, Fins or something similar. I looked and I can't find what they use. They don't say if the PLC can be a Profibus DP master either. If it can't talk to our motion controller I am not interested. Hopefully they use the TX and RX blocks like the Automation Direct PLCs do. The jury is still out.

Why can't companies just put their manual on line?

It looks like it would be a wiring nightmare the way the i/o is mounted..

Casey, If I were rich...really really rich I wouldnt have to work for a living and then I'd be able to try out every new PLC....

Re: Re: old panels

Peter Nachtwey said:

I can remember REAL DRUMS!!!! As far as I can tell they worked well and except for the fact that no one supported them anymore. The schematic was probably lost.

Click to expand...

Drums??? We've got LOTS of drums... Drum timers, Drum selectors, Drum counters.. you name it... We're still fixing them too.. Some of this stuff is 80+ years old and still going strong. I wonder what'll become of my new panels 80 years from now.....

Re: Re: old panels

Peter Nachtwey said:

As for the EZAutomation PLCs. They say they have Ethernet, but we all know that isn't enough. They must have an application layer like Modbus TCP,Host Engineering protocol, Ethernet/IP, CSP, Fins or something similar. I looked and I can't find what they use. They don't say if the PLC can be a Profibus DP master either.

Click to expand...

From my reading of the data, it appears the device can only operate as a DeviceNet or Profibus slave. Their ethernet protocol appears to be their very own (but can be used for programming).

up until a few years ago,we didnt have any speed controls, (i.e. VFD's or d.c. drives), just powerstats, pots, etc. and a couple of our older presses were war surplus from the wwII era. one was actually an old nazi press , (complete with swastikas and 3rd reich emblems). the control cabinet for this press was nearly as big as the press.
just wondering, since there's "ladder" logic, shouldn't there be "stair" logic, or maybe "escalator" logic?

I looked at their PLC programming.

1. What they call a "rung" looks a whole lot like Modicon's "net". I called to get a description of the logic solving within one "rung" and couldn't get a really straight answer.

2. They show a number of limit compares all nested onto one of their "rungs" and imply that doing that saves memory and scan time. Give me a break. How does the method of display affect memory or scan time unless one "rung" takes up a fixed amount of memory and each cell is scanned "irregardless" (I still like that word - if we use it enough it WILL be a word, that's how words are made) of whether it has logic in it or not.

Oh - and as far as manufacturer - I believe that AVG themselves manufacturers all their "stuph".