Multiplex tags in WINCC Pro v15.1

dahnuguy said:

Would be nice if they added "Oh yeah doesn't work in Professional."
Its like they include different versions in the same user manual.

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The engineering for WinCC Professional includes the engineering for WinCC Advanced/Comfort/Basic, so it makes sense that the manual would include everything. Note that the manual is essentially just a print out of the help file, which would also include everything. It DOES say "oh yeah, it doesn't work in Professional", by listing what products it does support (Basic/Comfort/Advanced).

WinCC Pro is essentially WinCC v7.x crammed into Portal. I think at one point it was supposed to be the future, but now it's just "also there".

If what you are trying to do is possible in a 300 but not in a 1500, then you can use standard (not optimized) DBs in the 1500 and then use the S7-300 driver. One of the things the "Optimization" does is use a GUID for tag access instead of the actual tag name. As an upside, it makes tag lookup much faster than full string comparisons, but this makes multiplexing very tricky. Another option could be to use the S7-1500 as an OPC UA server (With WinCC Pro as the client). I don't have any experience with your specific scenario, though, to know if either method would help or not.

mk42 said:

The engineering for WinCC Professional includes the engineering for WinCC Advanced/Comfort/Basic, so it makes sense that the manual would include everything. Note that the manual is essentially just a print out of the help file, which would also include everything. It DOES say "oh yeah, it doesn't work in Professional", by listing what products it does support (Basic/Comfort/Advanced).

WinCC Pro is essentially WinCC v7.x crammed into Portal. I think at one point it was supposed to be the future, but now it's just "also there".

If what you are trying to do is possible in a 300 but not in a 1500, then you can use standard (not optimized) DBs in the 1500 and then use the S7-300 driver. One of the things the "Optimization" does is use a GUID for tag access instead of the actual tag name. As an upside, it makes tag lookup much faster than full string comparisons, but this makes multiplexing very tricky. Another option could be to use the S7-1500 as an OPC UA server (With WinCC Pro as the client). I don't have any experience with your specific scenario, though, to know if either method would help or not.

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Thanks for your reply.

This feels like buying the high end trim package and finding out it doesn't have power windows...have to order the basic package for that.

I got to the point where I actually enjoyed Step7....and then they "fixed" it.

Hell is where programmers are all in the same open room with telemarketing and sales and they have to install and use a new version of tia portal everyday.

JesperMP said:

Unfortunately I dont have experience with WinCC Professional. The information I listed is what I have found on Siemens Support. Also, I cannot try anything out myself since I only have WinCC Advanced.
Can you setup a multiplexed tag with an array of elementary data types by using the instructions in PDF pages 4597 .. 4599 ?
If that goes OK, what happens when you try the same with an array of UDT ?
That may provide you with an answer to if it is at all possible.

May I ask why you use WinCC Professional with IPC427E ?
Not impossible, but I see WinCC Professional where you would have used WinCC V7 or even PCS7. So, for bigger systems than where you would use an IPC427E.

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The hardware / software is defined by other humans...

I will try the multiplexing if basic types later, just for gee whiz info and report back results.

Hope I never use WinCC "professional" again.

JesperMP said:

If Address multiplexing ultimately is not possible, can you somehow rearrange the task to indirect addressing ?

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I have used the zero element in arrays for HMI display in the past and I rely like the idea.

Since no one thinks in terms of number 0 device, I skip it, but then you have an unused memory area which is inefficient and bugs me.

So I use Element[0] as the display for editing , then hit save and it writes to the element[n]...

or

use Element[0] as the area where the HMI always looks and move the data to element[0].

Example

Index int.
Element array [0..12] of udt

Device 10 = index :=10

Move element[10] to element[0]

HMI always looks at element[0] no matter how many elements there are. Same code and same HMI screen for any number of elements.

If you want to control a device, then you need to read and write to and from the element[0] to element[n]...so you need an input section, and an output section, Read the inputs from the HMI and then process the code then write the result back to the HMI.

element[0].inputs read
process code
element[0].outputs write


Sounds trickier than it is.


I am sure there are other ways.


Some people like to use scripts...I like all decisions made in the PLC, but I was never a SCADA or PC programmer.

https://youtu.be/36eqQiBfIJc?t=39

this is another wonderful example.
I am using Winn CC V15 and so is he, but mine doesn't have the menu item "multiplex".

I am still looking for a way to do this.

https://www.dmcinfo.com/latest-thin...-faceplates-and-pop-ups-in-tia-portal-v13-sp1

This is exactly what I want to do.
Odd that Win CC v15 prof will not allow it.

dahnuguy said:

https://youtu.be/36eqQiBfIJc?t=39

this is another wonderful example.
I am using Winn CC V15 and so is he, but mine doesn't have the menu item "multiplex".

I am still looking for a way to do this.

Click to expand...

It's a feature in WinCC Comfort/Advanced, but not in Pro. However, you might be able to use something called tag prefixing instead, which can be more powerful (and a little more convoluted).

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/us/en/view/109766634

Since Siemens does the HMI licensing based on tags, you still need to create every single tag in the tag table, but then you can be pretty flexible from there.

mk42 said:

It's a feature in WinCC Comfort/Advanced, but not in Pro. However, you might be able to use something called tag prefixing instead, which can be more powerful (and a little more convoluted).

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/us/en/view/109766634

Since Siemens does the HMI licensing based on tags, you still need to create every single tag in the tag table, but then you can be pretty flexible from there.

Click to expand...

looks similar to what I did on the last project but I like the example in the link better.

I will see if I can use the example from the link you posted. Thanks.

The issue now is I need to have several machine modules displayed as one screen. Each machine module has 7 motors and 10 valves. I am thinking of using one screen and increment the module number.

I would have
Module[variable].valves[1].myudt thru Module[variable].valves[10].myudt
Module[variable].drives[1].myudt thru Module[variable].drives[10].myudt
I have a UDT for the whole module, not sure it will work though.




This is what I used last time.
But this still needs a separate tag in the HMI for every array element
Not ideal.

Script for pop up uses one screen to open mulitple popups.
pu_Screen1 is a "screen window" from the controls menu in HMI
Tag prefix is the HMI tag that points to the data to populate
sPopupName, is the name of the pop up screen to open inside the screen window.
Index just passes an Int into an index parameter.


Sub ValvePU(ByVal sTagPrefix, ByVal sPopupName, ByVal iIndex)
SetPropertyByConstant AccessPath, "pu_SCREEN1", "TagPrefix",sTagPrefix
SetPropertyByConstant AccessPath, "pu_SCREEN1", "Visible", "True"
ActivateScreenInScreenWindow AccessPath, "pu_SCREEN1", sPopupName
SmartTags("index")= iIndex


End Sub

I ran into this same issue last year. I thought Professional would be Advanced plus. Wrong.
Per my Siemens rep. Professional was designed for a SCADA system and Advanced for panels. That is why some of the Advanced features are not include in pro.

Question: Does Ver 16.0, WinCC unified correct everyone's misconceptions?

Ken Moore said:

Question: Does Ver 16.0, WinCC unified correct everyone's misconceptions?

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Comfort & Advanced are based on WinCC Flex which was based on Protool. Based on old tech, but updated along the way and easy to migrate from old systems to new ones.
WinCC Professional is based on WinCC v7.x, just smooshed into TIA.

My understanding is that WinCC Unified is more or less a from scratch rebuild with new tech. It's trying to replace all 3: Comfort, Advanced, and Professional. Upside is "yay new tech, yay new features, yay scada flexibility at the machine hmi level". Downside is "oh no, v1 software, also no migrations".