What do facilities with haphazard wiring have in common?

geniusintraining said:

either you have it or you don't.

Click to expand...

This. Put "people who don't got it" in your blanks.


The Dunning-Kruger effect is real, and its lesson to me, rather than "that person's actions look like Dunning-Kruger," need to be more "where are the limits of what I know, which is where I will exhibit Dunning-Kruger." Like in this forum.

Just remember, "Generalizations are always false."

Tom Jenkins said:

Just remember, "Generalizations are always false."

Click to expand...

Best answer so far!


I can fill in the blanks many different ways, it all depends on the specific situation at hand.

Like many of you, I have been in a lot of different factories and in a lot of different control panels. I've seen very old control panels that are pristine, and newer ones that are a total mess.

Being around this for a while, I think at least 3 variables play a significant role. In no particular order:

Time constraints...
Budget...
Management...

These are the 3 I see that cause a snowball effect, and they can be broken down much further.

Tom Jenkins said:

Just remember, "Generalizations are always false."

Click to expand...

Tom Jenkins said:

Just remember, "Generalizations are always false."

Click to expand...

In the OP's context of specific fill in the blanks for the inquiry.

I think you can generalize in a number of areas and break it down much further after that, but do not believe you can get to a definitive point that would have any realistic significance in the OP's original post. It's loaded for specific answers.

Tom Jenkins said:

Just remember, "Generalizations are always false."

Click to expand...

Well generalizations are not binary so I would say "generalizations are never 100% true."

But they don't materialize out of thin air; they exist for a reason. They're true often enough to persist.

If all maintenance techs that were going into panels knew what they were doing, I probably wouldn't been in the demand I am now!
I assume on every call now that the tech before me has made changes they don't understand here or there and cause more issues for themselves then they started out with. How many times I come in to fix a machine that wont't function, only to find out a relay or switch has been wired wrong, better yet, they miswired a relay that had nothing to do with the initial issue in the first place.

Keep in mind, some of these techs are of various trades and being asked to do things they shouldn't. No I don't condone it and I have on many occasions voiced my concerns about mechanics doing electrical work they don't understand. But that is above my powers.

Last week, I was called into fix a burnt contactor on a palletizer that had been down for a whole shift. Not good when the techs "should" be able to handle it. I come to find that the contactor is good, but the sprocket is so loose on the shaft, that its simply not turning the sprocket. How did they get to a burnt contactor????? Ill never know. They just locked it out and walked away.

Now, its no fault of the techs, they are in over their heads and are the first day they start, normally. We have been digging the bottom of the barrels and going over old resumes to try and fill the gaps but the basic skills just aren't out there for the taking. For what my company is offering anyway. As frustrating as it may be at times, its good job security for those of us that continually pull these factories out of the flames. Finding a miswire and getting a machine running for an aggravated production manager is always a glorious moment and has so far rewarded me decently!

I make my living retrofitting and maintaining old machinery electrical and control systems. So if they were all good at their tasked electrical work then I would be working far less.

geniusintraining said:

To be honest, you could fill the blanks with anything... long haired people, bald people, ugly people, fat, skinney, bubba, hell anything because they all fit and they all dont fit.

Click to expand...

Welp, given that the provided blurb includes the sentence "This is data, not racism.", the number of possibilities is actually pretty limited.

The fun part is that if I were to substitute the blanks for my region's maligned minority, you'd find some people who would wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment as well. Bet you'd also find people somewhere in the world willing to grumble about Caucasians.

The logical conclusion, then, is that we're all bad at our jobs. Carry on.

nyanpasu said:

Welp, given that the provided blurb includes the sentence "This is data, not racism.", the number of possibilities is actually pretty limited.

The fun part is that if I were to substitute the blanks for my region's maligned minority, you'd find some people who would wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment as well. Bet you'd also find people somewhere in the world willing to grumble about Caucasians.

The logical conclusion, then, is that we're all bad at our jobs. Carry on.

Click to expand...

One piece of context missing from my post was that this a very multi-cultural area full of 1st generation immigrants from all over the world. There isn't a regional maligned minority here. We have plants all over the area that, as they grow, seem to grow in the direction of one group of people or another; I presume the first operator brings in someone he knows, who bring in someone they know, and down the line. The result is you get plants primarily staffed with Caucasians, or primarily staffed with Filipinos, or Mexicans, or Dominicans, or Vietnamese, or Indians, or Chinese, or Nigerians, or whatever. I forget that not everyone lives in such a place. Some people may have read the OP as obvious bait, with an obvious "correct" answer based on where they live. It wasn't meant to be that.

strantor said:

I presume the first operator brings in someone he knows, who bring in someone they know, and down the line..

Click to expand...

This is the same everywhere that I have seen, may not come from the first operator maybe someone in management also, but yes I agree, I would work at a plant in Fremont CA and it would be 80% Filipino and go next door and they were 80% Korean, same in SC people feel comfortable working/living with their own type of people... they eat the same food, they drink the same drinks and watch the same movies so they also want to work together

But I still think you can fill in the blanks with anything because I have seen it from everyone

strantor said:

"As a field service tech I worked in different facilities every day, sometimes many in a day, hundreds of facilities over the years. One of my observations is that a disproportionately high percentage of [__________] people are not even a little bit afraid to tamper with machinery that they don't understand.

Click to expand...

Fill in the above with anything you want, I am 53 years old and have been in manufacturing all my life.... I have seen 20 people from every background and walk of life from one coast to the other.... pull out a screwdriver and manually push in the motor starter contactor and then wonder why did that happen or how could that happen, (as they wonder to themselves "Will I still have a job later today?") as I stated before you can NOT teach common sense if they dont want to learn

geniusintraining said:

Fill in the above with anything you want, I am 53 years old and have been in manufacturing all my life.... I have seen 20 people from every background and walk of life from one coast to the other.... pull out a screwdriver and manually push in the motor starter contactor and then wonder why did that happen or how could that happen, (as they wonder to themselves "Will I still have a job later today?") as I stated before you can NOT teach common sense if they dont want to learn

Click to expand...

I agree, I've seen recklessness at the hands of just about everyone. There are exceptions to every stereotype but that doesn't negate the stereotype. For reasons that I don't quite understand, we don't mind acknowledging them when they're positive, but when they're negative we act like we can't see them. Some (not you) take it a step further, shaming the person who won't play along.

Golden retrievers are intelligent and loyal dogs - "you're so right, I just love them." (despite there are some real idiot, worthless golden retrievers)

Pit bulls are aggressive, dangerous dogs - "OMG I can't believe how narrow minded you are. You're what's wrong with humans!" (Despite the statistical fact that they account for 65% of all dog-related human deaths (source))

I would try to look past the physical defining factors and looks more toward what the actual problem is. Like lack of education, under qualified, no direction, mis-management, no self discipline, etc. Anybody, any race, any nationality, can posses negative traits. Remember, we live in a world of “Caution Hot Coffee”, it’s not longer the individuals fault. If a maintenance guy is doing more harm than good or an operator is accessing panels they shouldn’t, then it’s not their fault. It’s the management of the facilities fault. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but it’s the world we live in.

If they can’t find a quality work force, then they are probably paying horribly and have no training programs or SOPs.

strantor said:

Dogs

Click to expand...

You had to go there... this is Hensley, he was my partner for the past 10 years, I took him to work and everywhere else everyday, I could not asked for a better partner, we had to put him to sleep Saturday

Man I miss him

strantor said:

I agree, I've seen recklessness at the hands of just about everyone. There are exceptions to every stereotype but that doesn't negate the stereotype. For reasons that I don't quite understand, we don't mind acknowledging them when they're positive, but when they're negative we act like we can't see them. Some (not you) take it a step further, shaming the person who won't play along.

Click to expand...

Probably because most of those stereotypes have no scientific backing and any supposed "data" is usually just anecdotal and riddled with confirmation bias.


An interesting read on certain false stereotypes that you still commonly hear today.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/racial-differences-doctors.html