Problems with S7 MPI communication

RMA

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Sep 2004
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I've got the HMI PC and the laptop I use as PG both attached to the MPI input and I've had problems with them from the word go. Until now I've always been able to wriggle round the problems, because I usually only needed one or the other connected and by downloading a suitable project from whichever system was working I could persuade the other one to work.

Now that we've started testing though, I need both together so that I can run the HMI on the PC and observe program flow and VATs on the laptop. At the moment the HMI PC is running happily connected via its CP5611 card and running at 1.5 Mbit/s. I can try what I like to configure the laptop's interface under "Extras > PG/PC interface settings" but it doesn't want to know. Now, suddenly, I'm getting the message:

"Online: There is an incompatible adapter version or the wrong type of adapter connected."

even though I haven't changed any of the devices in the adapter list! banghead

I'm sure that part of my problem is that NetConfig is not properly setup. I must have read the manuals at least half-a-dozen times, but somehow I still don't fully understand them.

Question 1:

Do I actually NEED to configure the PG in NetConfig or not.

Question 2:

If so, how do I do I configure everything, so that regardless of whether I download from the laptop or the HMI PC, everything will still work (this hasn't been the case up till now).

Question 3:

Somewhere along the line, presumably after a S/W update, an icon labelled "Component Configurator" landed on the desktop. I only get six hits on the Siemens Support pages and they seem mainly to be concerned with OPC / Network use (certainly not MPI). The Help file doesn't help very much either (not unusual!).

Does anybody know how to use the thing and is it worth my while spending time trying to learn how to use it? For example, could it simplify diagnostic work at a later stage.

Further Info.:

In the "Extras > PG/PC interface settings" setup on the HMI PC, the setting is described as being PROFIBUS (active). Since I don't get any similar options for the laptop MPI adapter, is the PROFIBUS reference here to the H/W or to the S/W protocol (which I presume is different to the MPI protocol)?

I want to use the HMI PC on the MPI port because with 21 DP slaves in the final version, some of the HMI screens are chock full with large numbers of update points (running 1280 x 1024, the screen is still fuller than I would ideally want). I don't want competition between the HMI commmunication and the CPU - slave communication and I can also get 12 Mbit/s on the MPI port with the CP5611 (Max 1.5 Mbit/s with the MPI adapter and the laptop).
 
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Like jacekd said: Make sure that you got unique adresses.

2.) Check under PG/PC-interface if the parameter "PG/PC is the only master on the bus" is checked somwhere. (e.g. HMI-PC or LAPTOP)
 
The PG is on address 0, the CPU on 2 and the HMI PC on 4 (I think!).

The HMI-PC is defined in NetPro and because of that I can't use "Extras > PG/PC interface settings". Just to make things more complicated I've got it defined twice in NetPro and since I'm not sure which version is actually working(!) I'm a bit loath to delete one in case I have problems getting it working again.

I've tried the PG Laptop both with "only Master on Bus" and without - didn't make any difference. What did make a difference was changing the speed to 187,5 kbits/s, suddenly there was no complaint about incompatible or wrong type of adapter, just the message to say that no other active user could be found on the bus!

I'll hang a screen dump of NetPro on the end of this. The object "EVA_FZR_OS1" is the original incarnation of the HMI station. The object "FZR-HMI" is the version I tried creating when I got to the point where I thought I knew a little more about what I was doing with NetPro. Which of them is actually working, I've no idea - and no idea how to find out, apart from deleting one or both and seeing what still works. That's a bit too drastic for me at the moment without further guidance!

netpro_800.jpg
 
Re 1:
No, when using STEP7 and Protool over MPI(which I think you do), then there is no need to configure the PC in NetPro.

Re 3:
You probably installed Simatic Softnet at some time. Thats why the "configurator" appeared.
Not sure how to remove it.

Have you checked cabling and terminations ?
At 1.5M MPI is a bit more sensitive to bad cabling.
 
Hi Jesper,

missed you for the last few days, have you been having to work for a living, for a change? :)

No, when using STEP7 and Protool over MPI(which I think you do), then there is no need to configure the PC in NetPro.

Does that mean I would be better off deleting the PC entries for the HMI PC in NetPro and just using "Extras > PG/PC interface settings" to configure things - it would certainly be easier?

Have you checked cabling and terminations ?

You may have the answer there. I'm using the PG MPI adapter on top of the piggy-back plug for the HMI cable, which has a switchable Termination resistor. It's possible that the termination is switched on effectively giving me a terminator in the middle of the bus. I'll go and have a look when I'm finished catching up here.

Thanks,

Roy
 
Now we're going from bad to worse

I tried switching the terminator to its other position, but that didn't make any difference.

Actually, I think I may have found the problem. In ProTool, the communication with the CPU was set up as PROFIBUS, so I may have had a clash of protocols, with whichever device established communication first effectively shutting the other one out.

Unfortunately , in the course of switching the MPI settings back and forth, I've now landed in the situation where I can't communicate with the CPU at all! banghead

I've had this happen before and usually between Memory RESET, power down, loading different projects or playing with the MMC, I usually managed to get things running again. This time, it doesn't matter what I've tried, I can't get the communication started again. The problem is that on previous occasions, I never quite knew exactly what I had done to get it started again.

Can some kind soul please enlighten me as to the exact sequence of operations, necessary to get back to a defined state!
 
Panic over!

Well, I finally got everything back up and running by writing a small test project to the MMC with a prommer and then downloading over the top of that.

However, it's left a bit of a nasty taste in my mouth, because there was still a bit of sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, going on. This included a time when the HMI PC could access the system with VATs etc., but ProTool couldn't see anything. I finally got rid of that by going back to the test programme, then overwriting it with a version of the main program from about a month ago, before finally overwriting that with the current version - not nice.

When you add to that the fact that I'm still getting MS error messages from the ProTool Run-Time S/W it doesn't exactly leave you with a comfortable feeling.

I think I need to sit down and have a rethink about how I'm going to organise things for testing, but I'll start a new thread to get peoples thoughts on that once I've got my basic ideas clear.

Thanks for all who tried to help, anyway.
 
Hi Jesper, missed you for the last few days, have you been having to work for a living, for a change?
Have been to a customer in Belarussia (so NO internet - its like cold turkey to an addict like me).

I prefer to use CP5611 and the purple cable everywhere. Even at 187.5k I think that the PC adapter is a bottleneck. And the CP5611 is not really that much more expensive.

Anyway, the Protool project doesnt use the MPI node and baud rate setting in the "set PG/PC interface" utility.
You should set the desired settings in the Protool project and then "set PG/PC interface" to match them. You should then be able to run STEP7 and Protool RT on the same PC. I do that regularly.

Maybe your problems are related to the PC or operating system.
Try to move to another PC.
I normally use Win 2000 Pro. What is the OS you are using ?
 
Just thought of one thing:

Is the Protool project "integrated" in STEP7 ?
If it is, then I think that it automatically appears in NetPro.
And I dont think you should delete it from the NetPro configuration.
 
It that a 315-2DP that controls everything ?
(One can just barely see it on your screenshot).

A current 315-2DP has max 16 connections. Early models only had 8 (I think).
I believe that every time you open a new online window in STEP7 (like a VAT for example) then one more connection is used.
Maybe you are running out of connections.
 
Have been to a customer in Belarussia (so NO internet - its like cold turkey to an addict like me).

A very cold, "cold turkey" I would imagine!

To start from the bottom and work backwards, it's a 317-2 DP which has (from memory) 32 connections and lots of memory and speed. :)

Yes, ProTool is integrated in S7 and I think that's where the EVA_FZR_OS1 symbol at the bottom of the pic came from. When you open it up, there is nothing you can do with it. I think I'll remove the FZR-HMI entry, which I added later, though.

I prefer to use CP5611 and the purple cable everywhere. Even at 187.5k I think that the PC adapter is a bottleneck. And the CP5611 is not really that much more expensive.

Unfortunately, I'm just a "guest" here, so I've got to work with what I'm given. bawling However, I've come to the conclusion that the "wrong adapter" message may simply be saying that the MPI adapter can't handle 1.5 Mbits/s, (see my comments on error messages in another thread!), after all, there's not a lot of point when you're limited to 34,800 at the serial port (from the MPI adapter, I mean).

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that for testing, I'll move the HMI PC onto the DP bus, at the moment there's only one module on it so there's very little traffic. Then I can have the laptop alone on the MPI port to monitor program-flow.

Up to now I've been running both Step7 and ProTool on the same PC, but I've got ProTool set up to run full screen, so as soon as you want to click a button you lose your VATs etc. I suppose I could always change to running ProTool in a Window, so that I could share the screen - oops that reminds me - I've just checked and discover that I thought about this six months ago and on one of the test pictures, which I haven't been using yet, I've actually got buttons set up to switch back and forth!!! :oops:

However, I think it's still more comfortable with the two functions separated on two PCs.

I'm running XP and SP1 on both machines but I've had trouble with the HMI PC since day one. I had Siemens in a couple of months back when I finally got to a stage (while observing a big Graph program) where I could force a crash within a couple of minutes and after changing everything else they finished up swapping the Pentium CPU. It's been better since then, but I still get occasional error messages from Windows when I'm running Graph - not nice!
 
Hey, on your screenshot, the Protool PC is on Profibus.

If it is a 317-2 that you are using (and not a 315-2 as I thought), then I would put it on the MPI/DP port and set it to MPI at 1.5M.

edit: Oh you replied while I was typing the above.

If the Protool PC is on a Profibus connection, then I believe it must be configured in the hardware configuration, and it will then appear automatically in NetPro.

Generally I recommend to split i/o networks and HMI networks so that they dont burden each other, and so a goofup on the HMI network will not lay waste to the i/o network.
You have both MPI and Ethernet in your system, so there is no requirement for putting the Protool PC on Profibus.
If you choose Ethernet for the Protool PC, then you need Softnet Ethernet on the PC. MPI and Profibus dont require any additional software, but you need a CP5611 (or similar).

edit:
A PC adapter can handle 1.5M, but it is really a bottleneck with only 38.4k on the PC side.
 
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If it is a 317-2 that you are using (and not a 315-2 as I thought), then I would put it on the MPI/DP port and set it to MPI at 1.5M.

That's exactly how I've been running up till now and I suspect that was where my problems were coming from. I've worked on the program on both the PC and the laptop and depending where I downloaded the program from it was presumably setting the port to MPI in one case and DP in the other.

ProTool was configured to Profibus the whole time.

I think I've got it sorted out now and as I say, for convenience, I'm going change it too the DP port for testing, there again the screen's big enough, maybe I'll try running ProTool in a window first.

That'll all have to wait till Monday though, cause I'm off for my weekend now.

Have a good weekend yourself (yourselves, to include our regular viewers! :D )
 
If Protool is setup to "full screen" then you cannot switch easily to other programs because it hooks CTRL-ALT-DEL, CTRL-TAB etc.

TIP: Put a button in the Protool project with the function "Display_Task_Manager". That will bring back the task bar etc.

By the way, my last project was with S7-400 and two Protool RT PCs on the MPI port at 1.5M. A CP5611 in each Protool PC.
It worked VERY well, both with STEP7 running simultanously on one of the Protool RT PCs and with a laptop with STEP7 connected by a CP5511.
OS was Win2000.

And thanks, have a nice weekend too :)
 

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