Control Logix learning curve

As a long time user of RS500 and others how steep is the learning curve to Control Logix?
Thanks

not bad at all, just a view advance features you wondered why you didn't learn it earlier;you won't want to go back.

Rockwell has a whole series of videos and podcasts on their web site. One series covers migrating from an SLC system to a CompactLogix.

Look it over and you'll have a good idea what is involved.

http://www.rockwellautomation.com/solutions/integratedarchitecture/resources4.html

OG

I'd compare it to learning Siemens. It's quite a bit more powerful (understatement) than Logix500 and with that power comes complexity. Little things like old guys are used to having things aligned by address (think bits in words) go out the window with tag based addressing. Tip: use aliases. There is a host of new features in hardware to boot.

It sure helped me to talk to other programmers that took the leap. Feel free to ask questions here - you are not the only one with questions that need answering.

Don't expect me to provide answers, I'm a Logix5000 newbie, less than 10 systems. I enjoy learning here and can sympathize (empathize) with your learning.

Greetings gas ...

correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that you teach this stuff from time to time ...

with that in mind, are you asking how long it takes to learn how to USE the software? – or how long it takes to feel comfortable TEACHING others how to use it? ...

and IF you're planning to just USE it, will you be designing and writing the programs yourself? – or in most cases just interpreting (and possibly making modifications) to programs which have already been written by other programmers? ...

it's kind of hard to answer your original question without knowing more about what you're planning to do in the long run - but I'll give it a try anyway ...

on the plus side, if you're already familiar with writing a program (start to finish) in RSLogix500, then learning to do the same thing in RSLogix5000 probably won't be too bad ... basically you just get started by learning how to do what you've already been doing – but using a different software package ... the good news is you can keep things simple to begin with – and then gradually add in the more-advanced features as you discover their capabilities and find appropriate uses for them ...

on the minus side, if you're going to be interpreting someone else's programs, then you might not be able to "choose your own battles" as the saying goes ... the point is that you might suddenly run into extra "tasks" (with various "priorities") – multiple "programs" – multiple "program tag" listings – the "new and improved" scan sequence – User Defined Data types – Add-On Instructions - and other assorted bells and whistles ... and don't forget to add in some rather serious "gotchas" in the SEARCH features ... and then beyond everything you already know about ladder logic programming, you will (sooner or later) run into Structured Text programming, Function Block Diagram programming, and Sequential Function Charts ...

I've had some of my "programming" students get so excited about RSLogix5000's increased POWER that they run through a whole box of Pampers just listing the capabilities ...

on the other hand, my "technician" students are less-than-impressed at being forced to deal with the added COMPLEXITY that all these new whiz-bang features present – when all they want to do is get Pump-A up and running again at 3:00 o'clock in the morning ...

the old saying: "one man's drink is another man's poison" comes to mind ...

anyway, if you can tell us more about what you're planning to do, we can try to give you more detailed answers to your question ...

in closing I'll just tell you about my personal experience ... I'd already been successfully teaching (and programming) RSLogix5 and RSLogix500 systems for many years ... when I finally saw the need to deal with RSLogix5000 too, I set myself up with a spare ControlLogix system in the extra bedroom at home ... I worked at least four to six hours after supper – about three or four nights a week – and sometimes a full day or so on the weekends ... to be honest, I fully enjoyed it – but it took me roughly a year before I felt acceptably "comfortable" with teaching this new stuff to paying students ... (then again, I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree – so your mileage may certainly vary) ...

I hope this helps ...

Thank you Ron, I hoped that you would weigh in.
I am semi retired but troubleshoot machinery, design some small machines and programs and yes, teach PLC to aspiring maintenance folks.
I have a customer that wants to change from 500 to Control Logix at his customers request. I will write the programs that are not very complex. I am looking forward to learning something new.
If I feel comfortable then I may think about upgrading some of our school SLCs to Control Logix. Again, our school focus is maintenance and troubleshooting but the more advanced guys (and gals) usually get in there and make mostly good program changes.
I suppose that this is one of those questions that if I knew how to word it I would have the answer.
So there you are.

Ron touched on the search gotcha, that hit a nerve.

My biggest complaints about the 5000 software:

1. With 500 when you do a cross-reference you get a pop-up window where you can scroll up & down to browse by address. With 5000 it's not a pop-up window, you have to leave your ladder view to see the cross reference. Gone is the entire cross-reference - you get only the tag you clicked on. This because the tags are not address-based, of course.

2a. With 500 you could open a B3 file (any file) and click on Useage and see what addresses were used. This made it easy to "see" the used address structure as you programmed. It made program organization so easy & intuitive. The switch to tags without addresses throws this out the window.

2b. With a data file open I'd edit symbol names & descriptions as needed, then drag & drop the address into the rung I was creating. With 5000 you have to leave the ladder view to go to the tag editor. The tag editor has all the tags - the list can become extremely long.

I'm not a fan of 5000, in case you couldn't tell. I've done less than 10 systems from scratch, but more than five. I've followed behind other programmers on six more. I feel like the software handicaps me, it does not empower me. Just my opinion - everyone has one. Just like that other thing, LOL

Oh - you can use aliases to get the addresses back.

Working as a systems engineer for an SI, having already worked on PLC2, PLC3, PLC5 and PLC5/250 syetems, my first encounter with ControlLogix was in a kick-off meeting for the next project I was assigned to. "oh and by the way, [the client] wants this system done with the new.." (as it was then) "..ControlLogix platform".

There wasn't an immediate opportunity for some training, and although a course was booked, it would arrive too late, so I just had to dive in at the deep end and fathom it out. I hadn't even used any RS software before, we had always used the 6200 series, DOS-based software for our programming. When the training eventually took place, I had already sussed out most of the machine's capabilities and benefits, so it was almost a waste of time.

I have to report that I found it one of the easiest transitions to make, largely because of the familiarity with the pseudo-universal A-B instruction set.

Within a couple of days using ControlLogix, and its programming software, RSLogix5000, I was a convert.


That was about 10 years ago - and nowadays I teach the stuff to maintenance people and programmers. I haven't come across anyone yet who struggled to cross-over from PLC (PLC5, SLC) to PAC (ControlLogix)

The switch from "data-tables" to a tag database I found to be hugely beneficial, I could create data tags as and when needed, and give them meaningful names, saving me the additional task of assigning symbolic references, and even descriptions were mostly unnecessary if the tag-name conveyed the meaning. All good if you lose the project file.

We haven't yet mentioned being able to create structured data (via UDTs) that enable you to store data in a way that is relevant to the application, not to the PLC. Until you see it, or use it, it is hard to convey the benefits of this.

You say you are experienced with SLC and RSLogix500, I believe you will have a very small learning curve to migrate to ControlLogix and RSLogix5000, it certainly isn't as hard (as Paul B suggested) as learning Siemens.



Enjoy

If you've ever programmed in some of the object oriented languages (Turbo Pascal with Objects, Modula2, C++, etc), you'll instantly recognize that RSL5000's ability to encapsulate data into objects (user defined data types) and methods (add-on instructions) is a big step over previous family of processors. Aliases are basically a type of pre-defined pointer that adds yet another layer of s/w power over and above the older processors. For me, it was some very nice additions as I had many years of object oriented programming in my past. Its certainly not a full implementation of OOP, but its a nice start.

At the risk of appearing confrontational I will point out Step7 has those things and I use them. If we were talking face-to-face you'd see me knod in agreement with you - I agree they are great and fantastic tools in our arsenal. It is a good thing that PLC programming is advancing towards the PC and we are gaining tools.

What throws me about 5000 is I end up feeling like I could do what I need to do so much faster in 500, because of the usablity issues I described above. I have co-workers that would use 5000 over any other product - they tell me they can do things in 5000 they could never do in 500!!!

Paul B said:

What throws me about 5000 is I end up feeling like I could do what I need to do so much faster in 500, because of the usablity issues I described above. I have co-workers that would use 5000 over any other product - they tell me they can do things in 5000 they could never do in 500!!!

Click to expand...

I agree with your co-workers - I do have one ControlLogix/PV+/Fanuc Robot design under my belt, that developed into a standard product, that I would have never tried in RSL500 or Step 7; it would have taken me quite a bit longer to think/write/debug in an addressed based tag/symbol map. I had earlier commissioned 2 similar projects that were less complex with Step 7, but it was more taxing on the robot code. I just felt I could develop & debug quicker in RSL5k for the more complex job.

I guess the heart of it is that programmers need to have a toolbox of products to choose from that they are familiar with and use the best tool(s) for the job at hand.

Everyone has made some good points about 5000. I was forced touse 5000 a couple of years ago because the CompactLogix was being priced lower than the SLC. There was a learning curve and fortunatly it was not a complicated project.
I use 5000 whenever I can now. It has been especially good on some of the larger projects. One in particular required the same functions at 40 stations on a line and had an ANDON display that displayed the same type of information for thes stations depending on the individual status. Each station required 30 lines of logic. By using the ADDON instructions I could write the logic one time and use it over and again for every station. I use the ADON instructions for most repetitive logic. Motor overload monitoring, System start, etc. It can be reused in other projects and the logic for the most part is already written. This drastically reduced the size of the program.

I agree with Daba. Data Table to Tag database is great. Give it a meaningfull name and your set. So many times I have went out to a job and there were bits and I/O with no description or symbol. You wont do that in 5000. Give it a name and if you have to name it why not make it describe the operation.
One note I will make about the tag names is that if they are extremly large and the program is large as well I have had some issues with RSView32. That mistake was only made by me once. Keep the names short and to the point.
My opinion.

Operaghost said:

Rockwell has a whole series of videos and podcasts on their web site. One series covers migrating from an SLC system to a CompactLogix.

Look it over and you'll have a good idea what is involved.

http://www.rockwellautomation.com/solutions/integratedarchitecture/resources4.html

OG

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that. Despite spending hours until my eyes bleed staring into 5000, I can't seem to make the jump.
Thankfully there are only a very few small changes I'd like to make and nothing too critical. Like many of you though, I have an internal 'need' to know how it works. You all keep posting and I'll keep reading and reading and reading.

a12bee said:

Thanks for posting that. Despite spending hours until my eyes bleed staring into 5000, I can't seem to make the jump.

Click to expand...

Where are you having problems in the transition. Give us some pointers we can help you more/

There are things I like about Logix 5 / 500 over Logix 5000, but ultimately I believe 5000, when used correctly:

- Is easier to trouble shoot and understand. SFCs are great for state driven code. SFC / Ladder combo is pretty powerful.
- More transparent, a lot in part to the removal of data tables.
- Allows for a more rapid development time

Of course there are those that will disagree with me. And I do like some features of Logix 5 / 500 that aren't in 5000, like CDMs and the histogram, and the ability to view usage of a data element, but that is irrelevant if you do a lot of indirect addressing.