difference between allen bradlly and seimense PLCs

We also use both manufacturers. What we found is that if you want to structure programs like a basic or C++ program Siemens allows you to structure the program easier than AB. If you prefer programming from top to bottom, ie one huge block of code AB is the better answer. One advatage Siemens has over AB is their FC's function calls. You can create a function in one block and give the inputs and outputs of that block names, pb1, stop_pb, Motor1 etc. Each time you call this block you simply change the real world I/O addresses on either side of the block. Once you have tested the block one time you can put it in you library and use it over and over again.
 
[email protected] said:
We also use both manufacturers. What we found is that if you want to structure programs like a basic or C++ program Siemens allows you to structure the program easier than AB. If you prefer programming from top to bottom, ie one huge block of code AB is the better answer. One advatage Siemens has over AB is their FC's function calls. You can create a function in one block and give the inputs and outputs of that block names, pb1, stop_pb, Motor1 etc. Each time you call this block you simply change the real world I/O addresses on either side of the block. Once you have tested the block one time you can put it in you library and use it over and over again.
Click to expand...

AB with it's newer versions of Logix5000 allows you to create your own blocks/instructions for re-use as well.
 
Guys, we can yabbut about this all day long and not get anywhere.

In the end what is going to be the best for the OP in selecting a PLC is to find out who his local vendors are and where they are located and gage their level of expertise to meet his own needs. And that might mean looking at a few other options such as Omron (plug for Bob) as well. You can have the worlds best PLC (AB;)) but if its difficult to get vendor support and parts where you are, but there is a Mitsubishi dealer who knows his stuff down the road then that might be a better choice, or if you have a local integrator who really knows GE, then that might be the choice to make.
 
Alaric said:
Guys, we can yabbut about this all day long and not get anywhere.
Click to expand...

The question was asked...................we gave input.................no yabut there.

I would never make my PLC choice on who the local supplier is.

I would not buy a GM because the dealer is across the street from my house.

I would pick the auto or PLC that I am comfortable with .having test driven several............and then order the one I want.............cuz your gonna be livin with the decision everyday for a while.

It is silly to me to pick omron because they are close by. Or which ever.

Of all the support groups I have ever used.........I never received what I thought was good support...........

I order the parts and find the material and ask questions and while I wait for a response or wade through incorrect knee jerk answers I find the answers myself.

And AB is most aggrevating for support.

I would start a forum online and post questions and create my own support group...............hey wait a second............that sounds familiar.........

Anyway, pick a half ton truck to haul light loads and pick the manufacturer of truck you enjoy living with. The dealer will ship it to you and then you can use it.

I just assume failure from the non support nowadays.

The hardware is all pretty much the same with few exceptions. There are alot of 3rd party venders that make alot of cards for AB...I am unsure about the others.

So given the hardware is a wash.it is all down to software and cost.

Pick one you like to work with.

Then decide if want to pay for it.

If it's too expensive move to your second choice.

Nobody can tell you what you would like though. That's up to you.

And asking us what we like and why is comical for sure...............but fruitless in the end.

BTW (Batman is the best SuperHero................

and Ford trucks are best.

and my Grandpa could shoot better than any of yours.)

There I said it..............all that non mention tension through out.........now you know.

I like Step7 for a number of reasons........I get bored easily.

The local Ab supplier is way better than the Siemens supplier, and I have gotten so many wrong answers from them I stopped asking.

If it weren't for this forum, I would be a month back from where I am now.

If you can go to a Siemens class it might be easier, but I do not recommend trying to learn S7 "on the fly".

AB on the other hand is quite easy to pick up..(not sure about Logix5000)

Mitsubishi is nearly as good

Pick one use the demo to write a small patch of code and see how it feels, call the rep and tell them you are trying to decide............some of them will come to you with a demo kit.

Good luck.
 
I would never make my PLC choice on who the local supplier is.
The idea is that they actually stock parts



Of all the support groups I have ever used.........I never received what I thought was good support...........

Your local support tried to.... but it's the typical response "I've been programming PLC's for 20 years..I dont need no stickn support"

I order the parts and find the material and ask questions and while I wait for a response or wade through incorrect knee jerk answers I find the answers myself.

Again, I tried to "get you started"


The local Ab supplier is way better than the Siemens supplier, and I have gotten so many wrong answers from them I stopped asking.

"From who?"
Did you ever call the FREE hotline?

If it weren't for this forum, I would be a month back from where I am now.


"I hope you sent LD[AR2, P#0.0] a big present too"
 
Last edited:
dahnuguy said:
...The local Ab supplier is way better than the Siemens supplier, and I have gotten so many wrong answers from them I stopped asking..
Click to expand...

What?? where in SC do you live?

I have friends in both.. but to say that the AB supplier is WAY better??

I spend thousands a year with our AB supplier, I spend hundreds with our Siemens, Siemens have gone out of their way, any and every time I have asked for a favor/help, they have never batted an eye to lend a hand or call people to help, money has always be second.... first lets get the machine running then talk money and they did not try to stick it to us after we resolved the issues.

Not that AB has been bad... I just could never say that they were better.. both have helped me when I needed it

Mark
 
Again I am not picking on one PLC they are all basically the same but as you know there not. I worked with numerous brands over the years however Siemens Step 5 and 7 had the biggest learning curve and I think everyone can admit the manuals are less than desired. I had a Siemens representative admit to me they were translated from German to English via India. As a plus the support was good. They should try to recruit who wrote the Siemens-TI 505 series manuals and go from there. If no official training is available ( or company paid ) I do not recommend newbies trying to learn by the manuals. I recently programmed a Mitsubishi "Q" PLC and with a little support from the local vendor and the manuals I was up and running in less than two weeks for a somewhat difficult application. I just can not see how our average electrical people with no formal Siemens training can seriously get from point "A" to "B". I love Siemen's AC/DC drives and some of the HMI stuff but the PLCS... Once you spend enough time on them the lights start going on in your head but who has the time to do this and train other uneducated people on them.
 
I don't know how these threads come up so often and are so...ugh..."spirited". This was OP's first post on a new account that was 7 (misspelled) words long. He didn't so much as reply once.
 
I have not had much to do with AB but have Siemens. My gripe about Siemens is that their documentation assumes you already know how to do something. The manual is simply for technical reference! You'll be telling me AB is the same!!!! I have to concede that their UK support is pretty good though.
 
dahnuguy said:
The question was asked...................we gave input.................no yabut there.

I would never make my PLC choice on who the local supplier is.

I would not buy a GM because the dealer is across the street from my house.

I would pick the auto or PLC that I am comfortable with .having test driven several............and then order the one I want.............cuz your gonna be livin with the decision everyday for a while.

It is silly to me to pick omron because they are close by. Or which ever.

Of all the support groups I have ever used.........I never received what I thought was good support...........

I order the parts and find the material and ask questions and while I wait for a response or wade through incorrect knee jerk answers I find the answers myself.

And AB is most aggrevating for support.

I would start a forum online and post questions and create my own support group...............hey wait a second............that sounds familiar.........

Anyway, pick a half ton truck to haul light loads and pick the manufacturer of truck you enjoy living with. The dealer will ship it to you and then you can use it.

I just assume failure from the non support nowadays.

The hardware is all pretty much the same with few exceptions. There are alot of 3rd party venders that make alot of cards for AB...I am unsure about the others.

So given the hardware is a wash.it is all down to software and cost.

Pick one you like to work with.

Then decide if want to pay for it.

If it's too expensive move to your second choice.

Nobody can tell you what you would like though. That's up to you.

And asking us what we like and why is comical for sure...............but fruitless in the end.

BTW (Batman is the best SuperHero................

and Ford trucks are best.

and my Grandpa could shoot better than any of yours.)

There I said it..............all that non mention tension through out.........now you know.

I like Step7 for a number of reasons........I get bored easily.

The local Ab supplier is way better than the Siemens supplier, and I have gotten so many wrong answers from them I stopped asking.

If it weren't for this forum, I would be a month back from where I am now.

If you can go to a Siemens class it might be easier, but I do not recommend trying to learn S7 "on the fly".

AB on the other hand is quite easy to pick up..(not sure about Logix5000)

Mitsubishi is nearly as good

Pick one use the demo to write a small patch of code and see how it feels, call the rep and tell them you are trying to decide............some of them will come to you with a demo kit.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
X2 Well said
 
I could go on, but whats the point right?

JRW said:
I would never make my PLC choice on who the local supplier is.
The idea is that they actually stock parts

yeah they are supposed to............but when I need something and they can get it overnight in a week..............I dont see that as support.



Of all the support groups I have ever used.........I never received what I thought was good support...........

Your local support tried to.... but it's the typical response "I've been programming PLC's for 20 years..I dont need no stickn support"

So you were there right? I have never been one of "those people". My experience has taught me how to learn, not how to stop learning...........you assume way too much. When I call and call with question after question and I get missleading or flat wrong information or no response over and over I call that non support. I don't know why anybody calls them sometimes. In fact I asked them if they just wanted to receive the money for the service but not actualy provide the service.

I leave a post here and have several responses in hours or a day at most and if they dont know they dont blow smoke at me. That's why I have stuck around here .....results. I judge services and people on their function.

Granted I give up after 5 or 6 trys of receiving **** support but how long do I have to wade through the junk to hit a gem?

I want help from a native speaker of my language who knows more about the issue than me, who can answer all simple questions off the top of their head in minutes and who will get back to me the same day with complex issues.

That is support. It is how I did it when I worked for OEMs..............so it is the standard I apply to them.

I order the parts and find the material and ask questions and while I wait for a response or wade through incorrect knee jerk answers I find the answers myself.

Again, I tried to "get you started"

whats that supposed to mean exactly? are from my local support group?
If you helped me here in the past you are part of this great support group here that I keep saying is so helpfull.


The local Ab supplier is way better than the Siemens supplier, and I have gotten so many wrong answers from them I stopped asking.

"From who?"
Did you ever call the FREE hotline?

Ah the name names part of the discussion. Why does it matter who they are?
I have spoken to them , they know............I admit most of it is difficult to do at a distance, but dont tell me untruths partial truths and flat out wrong information over and over.

Here's you an example........."We need a PLC that is UL listed Class1Div2"

"ok this one is and all the cards that go with it"..........(the S7-200)

ok now 10 months later at the panel builder..........."Hey this PLC isn't UL C1D2 ya know that right?"

WHAT?????

Nope see ............it is UL listed but not for C1D2.

Great which one is?

S7-313 is................really..........well I guess I can just redo all that in Step 7 then............now I didn't write the first one I cme in at the end and was jsut gonna touch up and complete the HMI.

I need parts............we can order it.........OK............anybody can order anything from anywhere local doesn't mean much anymore.

I can UPS a PLC from China in 3 days.

Now there are some nice people at said supplier and I personaly was treated well and on one occasion I receive out standing hand carry service.

But as a whole the project is a mess and its all he said she said at this point.

My comments about suppliers are from years of poor performance from most and my comments about poor service is from years of poor service.

If it weren't for this forum, I would be a month back from where I am now.


"I hope you sent LD[AR2, P#0.0] a big present too"
Click to expand...

I will attempt to repay the help I received here by helping others in like fashion.

LD , S7GUY, RON, and several others have been very helpful and it is much apreciated.

The expensive help support I reference was from AB..........I forget the cost now but it was maybe a thousand dollars or so fro a year of support. In that year I had one issue and they could not figure it out..........I did.

Took me a week but I got it while waiting for assistance from the pay me first people.

They should have per problem charges..........no solution no pay. If solution, send bill. You have a lot of issues? We have a subscription. Which do you prefer?



Not like they are some small company
 
geniusintraining said:
What?? where in SC do you live?

I have friends in both.. but to say that the AB supplier is WAY better??

I spend thousands a year with our AB supplier, I spend hundreds with our Siemens, Siemens have gone out of their way, any and every time I have asked for a favor/help, they have never batted an eye to lend a hand or call people to help, money has always be second.... first lets get the machine running then talk money and they did not try to stick it to us after we resolved the issues.

Not that AB has been bad... I just could never say that they were better.. both have helped me when I needed it

Mark
Click to expand...

Ok in York SC , 2 years ago.........I would send an email requesting a quote on a list of AB items..maybe 30 different items of various qty.

If I sent the email in the morning ,I got a response by lunch or just after with all part numbers and prices each and in qty with avaiability and suggested substitutions if an item was out of stock or overly expensive for the application.

I would forward this to the boss get an approval and email the OK to ship with a PO and the parts arrived as quick as we wanted, sometimes by courier.

Now I know it isn't fair to compare unlike issues.

This is whole different ball game.

The Simens supplier here is fighting an internal political battle with their parent company and they just laid off the one guy who was answering my questions pretty well...................except for the one question I can't get anybody to answer. (WHy can't I get rid of the nag screen on the 178 HMI?.....yes I see the 2 check boxes in the device setup.......yes they are unchecked.......no I am not using the Sm@rt Service..........no I don't want to buy the license for it to make the screen go away.) The official answer from Siemens is shrug...don't know...........that's a good one...........that was maybe 3 months ago. Even got the "expert" involved. No idea........sorry bout that...........

That is what I have come to expect from tech service.

I know I am tough to please...............all I want is the answer. You claim to be tech service...............service my tech ..............right?

Anyway............it is a silly situation, I chose not to play ..........I want to send an email and receive something that day and then get the solution within a day or two tops. And to be fair the one guy they had working at the local Siemens place did a good job of doing exactly that. But he's gone.

My comments about tech service are aimed at the whole tech service industry not this one local place, they do OK but in general I just don't bother.

It is more work for me to go through all the back and forth to get an answer.........easier to just get it myself. And the answers I get are not destorted by myth and legend. Cuz I try to disprove each one , I argue with myself until I can't dissprove the solution, then ask someone else again.......I keep the idea as a working solution until someone does prove it to be in error, then I modify it. Just sharing my process..........I see all this as an ongoing thing........no matter how long I have done it I never think it's behind me. And I come to the conclusion that tech service doesn't work after years of fruitless effort.

Now look at the guys here................these are the kinds of people you need in tech support. Even if they don't know , they give you a piece of the puzzle for you to work it out.
 
I have focus issues

surferb said:
I don't know how these threads come up so often and are so...ugh..."spirited". This was OP's first post on a new account that was 7 (misspelled) words long. He didn't so much as reply once.
Click to expand...

If you ever thought this forum was strickly for the benefit of the question asker , you are way off the mark.

People dont help here just to be helping their fellow man.

This is a puzzle operatunity to help sooth the bored minds of people who are capable of doing many times what they are required to do everyday.

This is an outlet for that energy, some may even get an ego boost from getting the answer or see it as a nver ending test or game.

Even if you do it just to help others , you still get to sharpen your troubleshooting skills.

We are repling to each other as much or more so than the original poster.

Some people like to be right, some like to know, some like to help, some are curious, others are just bored, some may seek perfection.

Some............just cant concentrate on what they are supposed to be doing today..............hmmmmmmmmm

I frequently like to compare what I feel to be true against a group qualified to debate the issue.

Most of you are much more experienced than I am and a good source for debugging my views.

SO which PLC is right ?

The one YOU like using.

Oh and I left out IronMan last time..........its a toss up between Batman and Ironman. Dr.Strange is cool too, but I like the mechanical gagetry without inate super powers.............but then there's Thor.........

Back to the HMI
 

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