Connect a Red Lion G3 HMI to a ADAM D/IO module

Thanks to some great advice on this forum after I asked the question: Could I communicate with a remote D/IO module (Read & Write) using only a Red Lion G3 HMI... No PLC?


The ADAM modules by Advantech were suggested, and it turned out Red Lion had drivers for many in the 4000 series. Now the 4000 series are a bit of a legacy item, and so is the HMI I wanted to use: The Kadet G304K2


Both devices communicate via RS-485.. and should, with proper programming of the HMI using crimson 3 and the version 2.0 driver for ADAM modules, be able to work together.


In fact, Advantech advertises this very idea:


Pic 1Pic 1.jpg


I'm hoping there is an experienced Red Lion HMI user out there, that has worked with ADAM modules and can evaluate the driver that Red Lion has in their Crimson 3 Database programming software:

https://www.redlion.net/sites/default/files/media/g3-adam4_2.pdf


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Here’s where it starts in the Crimson 3 software:


Selecting the driver in the main RS-485 communication mode assigns a MOD1 and port settings.



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continued

the MOD1 shows up in as only one window for configuration. And I only add the Module ID (4055):

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There is nothing here that seems to represent the “Device Configuration”.. There is no Adam Command Dialog Box” There is a “Generic” selection at the bottom of the model list .. but it’s not clear that should not be selected. makes more sense to select the module number.


Now we all know that Flag Tags are involved in this Database.. in order to send this “ADAM Command” So, we make some and source their data to the ADAM D/IO registers. (details later) back to the driver:

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The above information a bit (no pun intended) unclear. The driver info talks about a "Configuration Command” in HEX. OK where is that in the Crimson 3 Database software? We definitely need four internal tags per Config._Cmd. tag “mapped” to the ADAM Configuration Command … sounds good… but how is that done?

Specifically, a Config.Cmd TAG sourced to MOD1 equal to the hex word made up of the four Node,Input,Baud & Format internal TAGS

Not sure why a Configuration Command is necessary .. the module is just a D/IO unit under the command of the HMI .. The HMI sets some of the DO’s, and the LinMot Drive sets some of the DI’s and the HMI reads the DI’s The HMI reads some of the DO’s that may be set by the LinMot or other devices.

The Really Big Question is what is this driver doing? it offers so little input when Crimson 3 is using it


Here’s the addresses of the D/IO registers in the 4055:

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Nowhere is a location for a Configuration Command .. in HEX

Does the Driver create a Configuration Command? Unclear

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Not necessary now… as there is only one module in the system … but, that will change, as the system grows.

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Unclear .. The module can be made to run Modbus RTU, or ASCII … What does the HMI run.. how is that set?

continued

Crimson 3 selects the protocol in some driver selection boxes… nothing is mentioned as to the selected protocol .. other than in the driver manual, they talk about ascii hex for a configuration command…

String Tags … and Little Endian …

These preliminary Tags are string flags to enable reading and writing to the bits of the D/IO registers of the module 4055:

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ASCII Little-Endian was not a selectable option.

The ADAM 4055 works fine using the User program for configuring and testing the module.. which has only one port: RS-485 (2-wire) .. The module was tested with both a RS-232 and USB converter .. and positive results were achieved (see below picture)

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RS-485 (2 wire) Is a simple connection to the 4055; However, the single DB9 connector from Red lion’s 3G04K2 HMI offers many choices:

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The G304K2’s "Auxiliary Port" Pins 1 & 2 OR Pins 7 & 8 I’m going to guess:

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7 & 8 …. or….. is it 1 & 2 ? just try everything...

Thanks much for any help .. I would hope you would look into this only if it was relatively easy... And you have done this programming before....

I will send the same letter to Adventech support and to Red Lion support.. but, these items are legacy devices... no longer in production... kinda not worth their time..

Regards, Michael

Red Lion really needs to hire a person to camp out with each Crimson driver, some real hardware, each and every one of their offerings that can use that driver and flesh out all the options, create real world examples and write technical details. Every driver should have a minimum 30 pages of detailed guides. [/rant]

With all that said, I think the Device Configuration word you spoke of is a distraction from the basic task at hand.

If you need to monitor and control digital inputs and outputs, each module in the RS-485 link will have an ID number and the driver takes care of details under the hood, freeing you to simply select the addresses you want to assign to your Crimson tags. Maybe you have to use some software tool to set the "drop number" for each module?

I have not used any ADAM modules so I probably should have not replied, but in your shoes, I would use good old fashioned trial and error with minimum deviation from default settings. In my experience, the setting right out of the box usually just work for Crimson drivers.

I have used one driver in Crimson that was not very good and that was for Danfoss VLT/FC series VFDs. The driver did only the most basic stuff, so things like reading DC bus voltage and a few other things I wanted were not available. Red Lion said they would put me on a notification list if the driver was ever fixed to make the "P" registers actually function correctly (they do not at this time).

Maybe their ADAM driver is like the Danfoss driver and has not gotten the attention to make sure it all works as advertised.

For sure on the G304K, the Port 3 (Auxiliary port) RS-485 pins are 7 & 8 with 5 as the signal ground. When you select the port in the software to assign a driver, note the info at the lower left edge of the screen. "RS-485 Auxiliary Port" = "Port Number 3". "Comms Port" > "RS-485 Mode" = "Port Number 2" and is the main comm port and uses pins 1 & 2. Don't assign this to a driver if you can avoid it. It is the unocked back window back into the house if you lose your keys.

OkiePC ! Thanks again for some help with this.. sorry that the pictures (very small 45 kb's average) are not viable within the text. They used to be? Makes it kinda hard to tell a story if you can't see the picture (worth a 1000 words...

I'm certain the graphite HMI would have no problem communicating with massive numbers of ADAM data acquisition modules. But, I must use these small inexpensive HMI's ... It's a budget thing for this project.. a prototype that could be reproduced many times if it works.

You saw that first picture... that's a 4055 connected to only an HMI ... if not Red Lion... then which one?

There are better newer D/IO modules from ADAM like the 4150-B which has upgradeable firmware and is newer. But these 4055's (2) were from eBay used.. and check out fine using Avantech's User software.

Have to go low budget when experimenting.. and must keep total project low for prototype .. which is for education and museums .. who have no money.. sigh!

I hope you are right about that device configuration word... hopefully Advanteck will confirm that ..

I sent a copy of this post to their support.. will let you know what happens.

perhaps i should ask them which HMI they think I should use.. might give a clue how to adapt the G304K2 .. or the newer Kadet RL HMI's

also.. Thanks for the good info about lower left corner of the screen.. will check that out!

Apart from adding pictures to the post, I wish I knew how to delete a post

Had some spare time waiting for the guy to fit smart meters.

The pin out for the connection is given in:
https://www.redlion.net/sites/default/files/media/g3-adam4_2.pdf


Next post configuration thingy.

To see the configurator stuff. Starting with module set to Generic and then create and map a tag gives this dialog box.

But selecting a 4055 module limits the choices to digital IO. Where you go from there is a whole other set of stuff to figure, good luck.

BryanG said:

Had some spare time waiting for the guy to fit smart meters.

The pin out for the connection is given in:
https://www.redlion.net/sites/default/files/media/g3-adam4_2.pdf


Next post configuration thingy.

Click to expand...

BRYAN.. You are awesome! And you have pictures!!!


The pin out is wrong on that page... pin 6 is Transmit for RS-232 on most normal G3's .. the Kadet (vintage... or as they now say "legacy" use pin 5 for ground...

BryanG said:

But selecting a 4055 module limits the choices to digital IO. Where you go from there is a whole other set of stuff to figure, good luck.

Click to expand...

Ah Hah! .. well that's a start I did start mapping some tags, one numeric external (MOD1) and 4 numeric hex internal, and did see those driver options... Indeed... what to do next ... Thanks for your help!

You are familiar with Red Lion..
I'm asking Advantech what HMI they know of that talked to their 4055 (you saw Pic 1?) Perhaps learning how that was done would help map the G304K2's tags ..


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Soooo... if you load only one picture.. it gets in with the text!