PLC Laptop

cajunconfigurator said:

I logged in to basically ask this question. My Laptop got dropped about 60 feet off a rig into the gulf yesterday, I am having trouble finding a new one that has a serial port. Does anyone have any suggestions for laptops that have serial ports? I cant really seem to find one. Before you say just use a serial converter, I have NOT had good luck with those at all.

I work with Allen Bradly, SquareD, Onron, Texas Instruments, Omni, GE Fanuc, Siemens, Schneider, SCADA Pack, Murphy, Altronics, ABB, Micro Data, Digital Controls, Woodward Governors, DSE generators, ProFace, GE QuickPanels, and others.

Some of the older PLC's like the SquareD Sy/Max and TI 505's that require XP and some of the older ProFace and GE HMI's use QuickDesigner programs that run in Win2000.

I have not had luck at all getting some of the older software to communicate over USB converters especially running in VM's. I have had better luck using a PCI 232 port.

What is the recommendation for a laptop for this situation?

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In terms of a new 2017 laptop, you´ll have a very hard time finding one with a serial port. Even 5 years ago that was tough, today its pretty much impossible. (There are some but there normally industrial ruggedized laptops and as such very very expensive)

On the second hand market you´ll find a lot more.

Another option is a serial converter. I can recommend the one from PLC Cable. I have had no issue with it connecting to various different brands.

Regards
Ian McDonald

Usireland said:

In terms of a new 2017 laptop, you´ll have a very hard time finding one with a serial port. Even 5 years ago that was tough, today its pretty much impossible. (There are some but there normally industrial ruggedized laptops and as such very very expensive)

On the second hand market you´ll find a lot more.

Another option is a serial converter. I can recommend the one from PLC Cable. I have had no issue with it connecting to various different brands.

Regards
Ian McDonald

Click to expand...

Ian, Have you used a windows 2000 Virtual Machine to connect to anything using this serial cable?

I have used a Windows 2000 VM to connect to a GE PLC using DOS-based LM90, QuickDesigner, and some software for an ancient Cincinnati text based HMI.

The trick that I use (at least with VMWare) is to keep all of the USB-Serial stuff on the host. You can then in the VM settings "route" COM1 inside of the VM to COM8 or whatever your host has assigned the converter to. Using this method works well for all of my VMs.

bjh said:

I have used a Windows 2000 VM to connect to a GE PLC using DOS-based LM90, QuickDesigner, and some software for an ancient Cincinnati text based HMI.

The trick that I use (at least with VMWare) is to keep all of the USB-Serial stuff on the host. You can then in the VM settings "route" COM1 inside of the VM to COM8 or whatever your host has assigned the converter to. Using this method works well for all of my VMs.

Click to expand...

Ill give it a shot. I actually have to DL some Proface programs today I will try it with my serial adapter.

Thought I would add my 2cents.

Up until a year ago I was using a laptop that had a 3rd gen quad core I7 with hyperthreading, 8GB ram and a 1TB HDD. it booted my VMs nice and fast but I was restricted in how many VMs I could run at the same time without them getting really slow.
My "new" laptop is a 5th gen dual core I5 with hyperthreading, 16GB ram and a 500GB HDD. My VMs start a bit slower but run nicely as I can allocate a decent amount of ram to them but I am once again limited by the number of cores I have but I have found that I can run 3 VMs relativly comfortably on this "new" laptop where 3 VMs on my previous laptop could cause it to freak out.
I run all my PLC & SCADA software on virtual machines with operating systems ranging from OS2/Warp 4, DOS 3.1, DOS 6.22, Windows 3.1 up to Windows 7.

Rules of thumb I have learnt over the years:
-) do NOT skimp on the specifications, you will need a high spec laptop.
-) if you have to choose between more ram or a faster CPU go for more RAM.
-) If you are using VMs and a lot of them then a large storage HDD will be required (internal or external).
-) An SSD will help as will the virtualization options like VPRO (Intels umbrella term for the virtualization tech).
-) A 1920x1080 screen is a great help if you have good eyesight.
-) a sim card slot is handy but not critical.
-) 15.6" laptop size is good, the 17" ones get very heavy very quickly. 14" is my personal preference.
-) as far as the brand of laptop go for one with a good build quality. I use a Lenovo ThinkPad L540 and it is really strong as it it a MIL-SPEC build.
-) make sure you have an option to add an additional HDD. PL7 pro from Schneider is big issues running on a virtual machine while using a USB-RS232 converter or the TSXCUSB485 cable. I am replacing my DVD tray with an extra hdd so that I can run windows XP Pro SP3 natively purely for PL7 pro.

Buy the best that your budget allows for bearing in mind the limited upgradability that laptops have.

Good luck.

Usireland said:

I run everything inside VMs because that makes running competing software's etc much easier. Doing this you need lots of ram and lots of CPU cores. Also an SSD today is a must. Considering how much storage each VM uses its a case of the more the better.

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One question about this. Where you put your VMs, on SSD disc or storage disc?

Thanks!
BR

Paully's5.0 said:

I've always had good luck with the Dell Precision series. Currently using a 3520. I would consider an XPS as well. Running Windows 10 w/issue so far. VMs for PLC software as needed.

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Second the Dell Precision...
Mine is an M6800
i7
Primary drive: 500GB SSD
Second drive: 1TB SSD
32GB Memory

I was at 16GB ram and 500GB SSD......till I started using VMs.

I rotate my laptop about every 4 years.

NemanjaN said:

Where you put your VMs, on SSD disc or storage disc?

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We run Windows 10 and use Oracle VM's running Windows 7, we also use Buffalo Network drives that the VM's are backup on... because we have to support all OS's we have laptops with every OS and they are all Dells

Usireland said:

Another option is a serial converter. I can recommend the one from PLC Cable. I have had no issue with it connecting to various different brands.

Click to expand...

Thank you Ian

cajunconfigurator said:

Have you used a windows 2000 Virtual Machine to connect to anything using this serial cable?

Click to expand...

Our drivers support XP to Windows 10... not sure if I have the Windows 2000 anymore, that was a old chip set, we have several different chip sets we use depending on the other side of the cable and what device its connecting to

bjh said:

I have used a Windows 2000 VM to connect to a GE PLC using DOS-based LM90, QuickDesigner, and some software for an ancient Cincinnati text based HMI.

Click to expand...

You are the first person that I know of that was able to use a USB adapter and LM90... I tried for a long time to try and get that to work, the only way we were able to do it was with a serial cable

I purchased this laptop:

Dell Inspiron i7559-2512BLK

I paid 750 for the laptop, but I also purchased an m.12 512 SSD and a 1TB 2.5" SSD to replace the hybrid drive it came with and give me a 512 for the OS (super fast). I also added 8 GB of ram to get 16. Virtualization is very resource intensive so you need lots of storage and ram.

You can usually shave off a couple hundred by buying aftermarket ssd's and extra ram and taking a couple hours to do a new OS install and putting in the parts yourself over the cost of a laptop with those specs included.

I'm very fond of my Asus G751

Years ago somebody posted a question like this and somebody mentioned MacBook Pros. I thought, "you goofball you cant run our software on a Mac!" I am now on my second mac. Running VMWare and can have multiple operating systems running at the same time. When I upgraded I just had to copy the VM machine over to the new machine and I was set. Great battery life 6-8 hours after degradation. No boot time. You just open the computer and go. It will go for days sitting around after just closing the lid. The new Macs have solid state hard drives so they are fast. The stuff holds up well but just dont drop it off the side of a rig. Considering the cost you may have a hard time justifying the cost after an accident like that!

The serial port issue is a problem on all new computers so you just have to find one that works. If you can get one from AB for AB PLCs then that is probably your best bet.

geniusintraining said:

You are the first person that I know of that was able to use a USB adapter and LM90... I tried for a long time to try and get that to work, the only way we were able to do it was with a serial cable

Click to expand...

Yep, the only way I could get it to work was with the VM managing the serial port. Worked quite well!

As far as serial ports go, make sure you get one with a prolific chip:

https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Adapter-Prolific-PL2303HX-Chipset/dp/B00425S1H8

I have one like this (but this is a newer chipset model) and, seriously, I have connected to ALL kinds of old tech with it and never had an issue. Omron, AB, ABB, Mitsubishi, Weight Indicators, random 1-off machines from the 80's and early 90's, you name it.

As far as a VM goes you pass the virtual com port in the host OS off to the VM (use passthrough) and the VM see's it as a real com port.

cajunconfigurator said:

I logged in to basically ask this question. My Laptop got dropped about 60 feet off a rig into the gulf yesterday, I am having trouble finding a new one that has a serial port. Does anyone have any suggestions for laptops that have serial ports? I cant really seem to find one. Before you say just use a serial converter, I have NOT had good luck with those at all.

I work with Allen Bradly, SquareD, Onron, Texas Instruments, Omni, GE Fanuc, Siemens, Schneider, SCADA Pack, Murphy, Altronics, ABB, Micro Data, Digital Controls, Woodward Governors, DSE generators, ProFace, GE QuickPanels, and others.

Some of the older PLC's like the SquareD Sy/Max and TI 505's that require XP and some of the older ProFace and GE HMI's use QuickDesigner programs that run in Win2000.

I have not had luck at all getting some of the older software to communicate over USB converters especially running in VM's. I have had better luck using a PCI 232 port.

What is the recommendation for a laptop for this situation?

Click to expand...

The Siemens Field PGs (current generation is M5, has OK specs) still has a 25 pin serial port (and converter to 9 pin), as well as a profibus port. It'll cost you a pretty penny, though. The Siemens sales guys say the cost of the laptop is hypothetically balanced out by the time savings of pre-installed software, discounts on licensing and all the dongles you don't need to buy now, but ymmv.

If you do work on S5, it's probably a godsend. If you do S7, it gets the job done, but probably plenty of other ways to do the job.

Since you list that many brands, I assume you use VMs. I have never tried passing it into a VM, but I don't think passing a physical serial port is as easy as a USB dongle.

mk42 said:

Since you list that many brands, I assume you use VMs. I have never tried passing it into a VM, but I don't think passing a physical serial port is as easy as a USB dongle.

Click to expand...

Passing a true serial port is just as easy as passing a dongle. It is the exact same procedure.

1. Find COM port. I prefer to assign it a static number in dev manager.
2. Go into VM settings and give COM port to VM. Check the "passthrough" box.
3. Boot up your VM and it will take control of the COM port.