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Old April 26th, 2018, 08:31 AM   #16
MasterBri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tragically1969 View Post
Sounds like it is but without seeing the spec i can't say for sure
its a phoenix ELR 1-24DC/600AC-50 - 2297170

But I don't think its going to work for what I need because its only a single pole...

I need a double pole that can handle roughly 60A, Preferably at in the same price range.
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Old April 26th, 2018, 08:55 AM   #17
James Mcquade
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May I suggest the following

sinking inputs - requires less power.
Ethernet - easy to do online edits.
I ever have used the 800 series, we use plc5, mircologix, 500, compact logix and control logix. everything is being upgraded to the logix 5000 platform.

before you buy,
sit down and write your inputs, outputs, analog, and other devices.
design your controls and add 30% power
design your system and see if you forgot anything.

better to design and find out you left off items than to have to explain you need to rebuy stuff.

james
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Old April 26th, 2018, 09:02 AM   #18
tragically1969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBri View Post
its a phoenix ELR 1-24DC/600AC-50 - 2297170

But I don't think its going to work for what I need because its only a single pole...

I need a double pole that can handle roughly 60A, Preferably at in the same price range.
That's a solid state contractor, do you need solid state ?

Apologies if you have detailed it already but what exactly are you switching with the contactors ?
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Old April 26th, 2018, 09:52 AM   #19
dogleg43
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The original poster is asking all of the right questions and I applaud him/her for it. However, I hope a qualified person they work with will be reviewing the final choices for safeties sake.

It is scary enough that such newbies are permitted to program complex and dangerous machinery but to also be allowed to pick out and design the wiring for the same should be illegal (and probably is).

Again, I applaud the OP for asking questions but question his superiors if they are not closely monitoring him.
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Old April 26th, 2018, 01:00 PM   #20
MasterBri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tragically1969 View Post
That's a solid state contractor, do you need solid state ?

Apologies if you have detailed it already but what exactly are you switching with the contactors ?
Im trying to make 2 - 24V Parker Electrohydraulic Actuators go up and down.
They only have two wires, Blue and Green, to go up Blue is + and Green is -, To go down they are reversed. With max load they will be pulling around 50-60A

I don't think I need a solid state contactor, I was just looking at one that met some of my needs.
I figured that this would be a good place to come and ask questions about things of this nature, because as has been pointed out, I am a newbie when it comes to these particular sets of components that deal with adding logic into systems. Unfortunately, just like any other forum.... the internet

Last edited by MasterBri; April 26th, 2018 at 01:07 PM. Reason: after thought
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Old April 26th, 2018, 01:52 PM   #21
James Mcquade
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instead of solid state contactor, go with mercury filled rated at 100 amps.
at 24 volts, you will be replacing the contactors a lot.
an auto manufacturer replaced about 150 relay contactors monthly because of 14 volts dc. we eliminated that by going to mercury contactors and he saved a bunch on monthly expenses.

james
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Old April 26th, 2018, 07:56 PM   #22
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Something about the current draw seems off to me here. What are the specs on the Parker hardware? Nothing on 24V DC should be pulling 50-60A. Is that the current draw of the entire Hydraulic power pack?
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Old April 27th, 2018, 04:03 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jeev View Post
Something about the current draw seems off to me here. What are the specs on the Parker hardware? Nothing on 24V DC should be pulling 50-60A. Is that the current draw of the entire Hydraulic power pack?
This is the spec sheet: https://www.parker.com/literature/Cy...ual%203-11.pdf

We have Motor D, which says it is equivalent to about half of the shown ratings for Motor B in figure 7, middle of the page.
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Old April 29th, 2018, 06:18 AM   #24
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Geez,that's lunacy. The previous suggestions still stand though.
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Old April 29th, 2018, 07:16 AM   #25
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I have not seen this question on here, but if in America, it is pretty typical to go with Sinking Inputs and Sourcing outputs. This is primarily because, for electricians, it is more intuitive to thinking about the inputs receiving a positive voltage switched in the field, and on the outputs, they will send a positive voltage.

When I do a project like this, I'm in the same boat as you. So what I do is sit down with a pencil and piece of paper, and I list every single function necessary. Then break down each on those functions on a separate sheet of paper and what will be required to control them.

Can we get a picture of the nameplate? It seems to hold the relevant info for sizing.

Last edited by sparkie; April 29th, 2018 at 07:19 AM.
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Old April 30th, 2018, 08:54 AM   #26
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sparkie,

this is not an electricians point of view.
the sinking input cards and sourcing output cards are easier to come by, require less power, and are cheaper than their counterparts.

not only that, but most companies design their controls that way.

the BIG issue is when you have a plant that has both types of cards in a plant
and you put a sinking card in the place of a sourcing card and vice versa.
I don't know what will happen, never had that situation before.

james
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Old April 30th, 2018, 09:04 AM   #27
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Ive been able to do a little figuring and I will be back after a few days figuring out exactly what I want my system to do. At this beginning stage I believe that all I want to accomplish is having a simple 4 push button inputs with 2 outputs to control the up/down function of the actuators. There will be more functionality that I will want to add afterwards.
I revisited my actuator situation as the current iteration has returned and I was able to disassemble. The motors actually say 23A on them so that takes care of needing so many amps at least!

I am now looking into the Micro820 in combination with WEG CWB32-11-30C03 contactors.
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Old April 30th, 2018, 09:14 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBri View Post
Ive been able to do a little figuring and I will be back after a few days figuring out exactly what I want my system to do. At this beginning stage I believe that all I want to accomplish is having a simple 4 push button inputs with 2 outputs to control the up/down function of the actuators. There will be more functionality that I will want to add afterwards.
I revisited my actuator situation as the current iteration has returned and I was able to disassemble. The motors actually say 23A on them so that takes care of needing so many amps at least!

I am now looking into the Micro820 in combination with WEG CWB32-11-30C03 contactors.
That contactor is not a 24VDC contactor, it's just got a 24VDC coil, the contacts are rated AC3 (squirrel cage motor applications) which is not what you have, you were nearer the mark with your solid state contactor
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Old April 30th, 2018, 12:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBri View Post
Ive been able to do a little figuring and I will be back after a few days figuring out exactly what I want my system to do. At this beginning stage I believe that all I want to accomplish is having a simple 4 push button inputs with 2 outputs to control the up/down function of the actuators. There will be more functionality that I will want to add afterwards.
I revisited my actuator situation as the current iteration has returned and I was able to disassemble. The motors actually say 23A on them so that takes care of needing so many amps at least!

I am now looking into the Micro820 in combination with WEG CWB32-11-30C03 contactors.
What about something like this?

https://www.alliedelec.com/omron-ele...SABEgIwqfD_BwE

Maybe someone can weigh in, as I haven't deal with 24vdc motors much. This one is an electromechanical, but it seems like to me if you're wanting to drive the motor straight from the relay, a solid state would be a better option. I've had issues in the past with running 90vdc conveyor motors directly from a relay and it welding the contact shut after a while and the conveyor wouldn't shut off.

Last edited by jacoffey85; April 30th, 2018 at 12:19 PM.
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Old May 1st, 2018, 11:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Mcquade View Post
sparkie,

this is not an electricians point of view.
the sinking input cards and sourcing output cards are easier to come by, require less power, and are cheaper than their counterparts.

not only that, but most companies design their controls that way.

the BIG issue is when you have a plant that has both types of cards in a plant
and you put a sinking card in the place of a sourcing card and vice versa.
I don't know what will happen, never had that situation before.

james
When you sum it all up, it really comes down to electron flow vs conventional flow and which method whoever happened to design the machine chose to use. Never looked at card cost too much though. I wasn't the one paying for it. There surely can't be that much difference in the cost of an NPN vs PNP transistor.
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