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Old February 17th, 2016, 11:18 PM   #1
Peter Laing
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Logix5000 v20 Fatal Error after Windows Update KB3102433

I've been using RSLogix5000 v20 for several years now on win7 64 with no real problems. So it was a big surprise when I tried to open a program this morning only to have it crash, reporting a 'Fatal Error'. I suspected a bad sector on my hard drive as I had recently been doing some serious travelling and have experienced that before. Luckily I had a hard drive image from a month ago and decided to restore it. After restoring the image v20 was working again. A chkdsk /r from a Win 7 repair disk showed no problems with the drive. Next step was to download and install Windows Updates. No problem, after a reboot v20 was still working after the first round of 21 or so updates. Back to Windows Update, this time only one; reboot and run v20; bang! Fatal Error. The last update was "Windows .NET Framework 4.6.1 for Windows 7 for x64 KB3102433". I rolled back to the system restore point before that update to success... v20 is working again.

I was lucky in that this situation happened in my office and I could deal with it in a relaxed situation. I hate to think of the consequences had this happened two weeks ago when I was on a job site in Africa.

The moral of the story... Turn your windows automatic updates off, selectively install them and be ready to roll back to a previous restore point.

Oddly enough, v19 continued to work through all this.

Cheers,

Pete
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Old February 18th, 2016, 09:15 AM   #2
dmroeder
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Good for you for posting this Peter! Sheds some light on what happened to one of our techs last week.

He eventually figured out that it was a Windows update causing his crash, but only after 2 days of goofing with it, at a customers site. One thing I never did get to the bottom of (until now) was which update caused it. I updated my VM yesterday for science and Logix didn't crash for me. Well I went back this morning to look at the updates and the one you mentioned was unchecked so it never installed.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 11:05 AM   #3
Peter Laing
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Yes, there's still some uncertainty about what's happening here. I mentioned this to a colleague, his Windows Update history shows that KB3102433 installed on Jan 30th and he hasn't had a problem...

Who knows where windoze goes? ;-)
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Old February 18th, 2016, 11:37 AM   #4
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User had this same issue the other day. Browse down to the actual executable and try running as an Administrator (Right Click --> Run as Admin).

Sounds crazy, but it worked for him.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 12:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xC0MMAND0x View Post
User had this same issue the other day. Browse down to the actual executable and try running as an Administrator (Right Click --> Run as Admin).

Sounds crazy, but it worked for him.
Cool, I'll try that on my VM.
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Old February 18th, 2016, 12:59 PM   #6
Peter Laing
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Let us know what you find...
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Old February 18th, 2016, 10:31 PM   #7
dmroeder
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Hmm, I installed it finally and v20 works just fine. I wonder if it's related to a combination of user rights and the update. I'm an administrator on my VM, maybe users that have the problem are not an administrator or some lesser rights.
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Old February 19th, 2016, 08:05 AM   #8
Geospark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xC0MMAND0x
...Browse down to the actual executable and try running as an Administrator (Right Click --> Run as Admin).

Sounds crazy...
That's not so crazy. It's actually one of Rockwell's top suggestions for some of the many Fatal Errors you can get with RSLogix 5000 / Logix Designer under Windows 7 x64.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laing
Logix5000 v20 Fatal Error after Windows Update KB3102433

I've been using RSLogix5000 v20 for several years now on win7 64 with no real problems. So it was a big surprise when I tried to open a program this morning only to have it crash, reporting a 'Fatal Error'...
Do you know which 'Fatal Error' error it was exactly? There are many...

Example...

Fatal Error!

Application Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Rockwell Software\RSLogix 5000\ENU\v20\Bin\RS5000.Exe
Elapsed execution time: 20 seconds

Version: v20 (Release)
Source File: unknown
Line Number: -1
Function/Method: unknown

OS Version: Windows 7 64-bit (Service Pack 1 - Build 7601)
Thread Id: 00000728 (1832)
Error 0xc015000f (-1072365553)

0xc015000f - No message available for error.
No project file is currently open.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laing
...The last update was "Windows .NET Framework 4.6.1 for Windows 7 for x64 KB3102433". I rolled back to the system restore point before that update to success... v20 is working again...

...Oddly enough, v19 continued to work through all this...
There have been a few known issues with RSLogix 5000 and Microsoft .NET Framework and many solutions, including the above Run as Administrator setting (which I hope is all that's wrong for you Dustin?).
Again, knowing the actual Fatal Error details can help to narrow this down.

These software products access the libraries within Microsoft .NET Framework for various reasons and different RSLogix 5000 versions have historically used different versions of Microsoft .NET Framework over the years. This is why, on a machine with several RSLogix 5000 versions installed, you will see several versions of Microsoft .NET Framework installed.

RSLogix 5000 version 20 uses Microsoft .NET Framework v4.0

...whereas...

RSLogix 5000 version 19 uses Microsoft .NET Framework v3.5.

This is why the likely Microsoft .NET Framework v4.0 issue with RSLogix 5000 v20 is not affecting RSLogix 5000 v19.

One such issue could be...

The Microsoft .NET Framework 4 Client Profile is not supported with RSLogix 5000 v20 and it may generate Fatal Errors with just the Client Profile installed. Both the Microsoft .NET Framework 4 Client Profile and Extended must be installed.

This is just one of a few reasons why they advise users to reinstall Windows .NET Framework using the standalone installation provided by Rockwell with all the packaged versions, whether downloaded or disk media.

Another reason is that there might just be a Service stopped after the update?

...and so on...

Ideally, you should not have to resort to avoiding Windows Updates entirely, or controlling and stepping back, but I do agree, it is a pain when these things happen.

I could list lots of possible causes and possible solutions, but giving the Fatal Error in more detail would greatly expedite the process.

Regards,
George
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Old February 19th, 2016, 09:49 AM   #9
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George,
That is the exact error I was getting. If I do the "run as administrator" trick it works just fine.
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Old February 19th, 2016, 10:50 AM   #10
Peter Laing
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Fatal Error Log

Interesting... Here is the content of the log file for the v20 crash previous to my last Win Update rollback:

Wed Feb 17 18:00:13 2016

Fatal Error!

Application Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Rockwell Software\RSLogix 5000\ENU\v20\Bin\RS5000.Exe
Elapsed execution time: 16 seconds

Version: V20.00.00 (Release)
Source File: unknown
Line Number: -1
Function/Method: unknown

OS Version: Windows 7 64-bit (Service Pack 1 - Build 7601)
Thread Id: 0000098c (2444)

Error 0xc015000f (-1072365553)

0xc015000f - No message available for error.

No project file is currently open.


Cheers,

Pete
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Old February 19th, 2016, 11:09 AM   #11
Peter Laing
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I'm going to make a fresh hd image then try again with the windows updates.
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Old February 19th, 2016, 02:06 PM   #12
Peter Laing
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A Solution - v20 is working again with the latest Windows Updates.

OK, I've found a solution that works for me. Here's how it went:

- I ran Windows Updates and selected the 'important' update KB3102433, Dot Net 4.6.1.

- After a successful install followed by a reboot I clicked on a v20 acd (program) file. After about 15 seconds a message box popped up to indicate a fatal error. This was followed by two more popups with (minimal) information relating to the error.

- I rebooted, and per xCommandox's suggestion, opened Logix5000 as Administrator. Logix5000 opened properly, and I was able to open a v20 acd file. I closed Logix5000, then double clicked an acd file and it opened properly.

- Rebooted again and double clicked an acd file. Bingo, it worked!

- Another reboot and double click an acd file. Yes, it looks like we've got it.

So, for some reason after the install of dot net 4.6.1, RSLogix5000 v20 must be run under elevated administrator privileges. However, after being run once as administrator, it will run properly under a normal user account as a member of the Administrator Group.

After this experience I'll be making hd images on a regular basis. By the way, Clonezilla on Pendrive Linux works great for this, and it supports UEFI.

Cheers,

Pete
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Old February 19th, 2016, 02:15 PM   #13
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I got this issue last week and since I was on 20.01 I just uninstalled it and installed 20.04 instead. Solved the problem.

The UAC on windows 7 keep up the ante and that's causing issue at home too with some of my older games.
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Old February 21st, 2016, 05:30 AM   #14
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That was uncanny. I just posted up one example of many Fatal Errors you can get, but it turned out to be exactly yours. My Crystal Ball is working well.

Here is the technote on the not so crazy solution to Run as Administrator, as kindly advised by xC0MMAND0x...

186508 - RSLogix/Studio 5000: Fatal Error 0xc015000f during start up
Access Level: TechConnect

Note how it can affect RSLogix 5000 v20 only or Logix Designer v2x (any version). This is because all versions have been using Microsoft. NET Framework v4 since v20.

Note also how if the Run as Administrator solution does not work then a further step is to disable UAC. Failing all that, reinstall Microsoft. NET Framework v4 using the standalone installation.

Then Run as Administrator again if needs be.

...Live, Die, Repeat...

Regards,
George
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Old April 26th, 2016, 10:12 AM   #15
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Thank you for this thread, i had a user at work run into this problem. I only had to run RSLogix 5000 once in admin mode, every run after (not in admin mode) seems to be ok.
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